clever or ridiculous?

Eagle26

played cash earlier at nl10 for a short time (lower than i normally play) at this level i know standard abc poker is all u need but i love mixin it up. here is a couple of hands i wanna share with ya that i played earlier which i would like feedback on. i won both hands but is it good play or just suicidal? i seriously dont know if its good or just plain bad tbh. are my lines good?-or easy to spot at the higher levels? I can grind and play tight abc poker if i have too but its not my natural game and i find it boring! i am who i am so my style will probably never change so my question is this - is this good cash game play or in the long run will i just get found out? plz ignore the stakes, wud this be good play at 200/300nl say?

first hand-no idea why my bet is 98p on the flop! had a few beers so god knows what my thinkin was at the time, normally id make it around 1.50. but apart from that-whats ya thoughts?

BlackFish3	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£15.27
DOHHHHHHH	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£59.47
	Your hole cards	5 6
Red_King	Fold
xxxx	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£13.80
Eagle26	Raise		£0.90	£1.35	£12.81
BlackFish3	Fold
DOHHHHHHH	Fold
xxxx	Call		£0.60	£1.95	£13.20
Flop
		4 7 7
xxxx	Check
Eagle26	Bet		£0.98	£2.93	£11.83
xxxx	Call		£0.98	£3.91	£12.22
Turn
		J
xxxx	Bet		£1.96	£5.87	£10.26
Eagle26	Call		£1.96	£7.83	£9.87
River
		3
xxxx	Bet		£5.87	£13.70	£4.39
Eagle26	All-in		£9.87	£23.57	£0.00
xxxx	Call		£4.00	£27.57	£0.39
xxxx	Show	A J
Eagle26	Show	5 6
Eagle26	Win	Straight to the 7	£26.17		£26.17

Eagle26

second hand obviously im reppin the ace. but after the re-raise on the flop and the lead out on the turn is my re-raise believable enough? is my line convincing? obviously i won this hand, but thats irrelavent. good play or crackers?

BlackFish3	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£15.79
xxxx	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£57.48
	Your hole cards	6 5
Red_King	Fold
del9	Fold
Eagle26	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£18.97
BlackFish3	Fold
xxxx	Call		£0.30	£0.85	£57.18
Flop
		5 7 A
xxxx	Check
Eagle26	Bet		£0.64	£1.49	£18.33
xxxx	Raise		£2.00	£3.49	£55.18
Eagle26	Call		£1.36	£4.85	£16.97
Turn
		2
xxxx	Bet		£3.40	£8.25	£51.78
Eagle26	Raise		£9.23	£17.48	£7.74
xxxx	Fold

beaneh

hand one is fine two doesn't really make sense with a turn raise as most things you fold out you are probably beating.

Eagle26

In Response to Re: clever or ridiculous?:

hand one is fine two doesn't really make sense with a turn raise as most things you fold out you are probably beating.
Posted by beaneh

so rather than raise the turn, would u call or fold?

DOHHHHHHH

Fold, let me have the pot

zing

u have the best hand in #2 if he folds btw

harvey23

ill start with hand one, since you have not given any info on the type of players, I am just going to assume they are standard regs.

1) not a bad hand to 3bet with, I would perfer it to be suited just because there will be alot more turns you can barrell for example if you had 5h 6h, and the flop was 2h Kd 3c, if the turn brings another heart, you have picked up more equity in the hand, so you have a reason to bet, one to push them off there hand, and 2 if you do hit your flush you can get more money in on the river.

Since you 3bet 56o, as a bluff, so I would raise a bit more to £1.20 to get them to fold hands like AJ/A10, small PP, as you are never ahead of there calling range. Flop cbet is standard perhps you could of bet around £1.10-1.30. to get folds.


Turn is tricky as they donk into you, I cant see any hands folding if you shove so I dont like that, the flat call is fine. River is standard.


hand 2), you need to fold to that flop raise, you have very little equity in the hand and only hold middle pair no kicker. I have no idea what villian is doing, by re-raising the flop then bet folding the turn, i think that is such a terrible line, I know if I was villian in that spot I would be stacking off with AJ+ in that spot against you, esp after you showed down 65o in a pervious hand on the same table.


hand 2)

DOHHHHHHH

Villain had something like king 3 of spades and was on his tenth can of beer.

But Harvey u say in ur analysis of Eagles play, that he shud fold to the raise on the flop. Which surely makes his/my play one that will work more times than not.

As I said on another thread, eagles laptop is broken atm and the fold button isn't working!

Pownnnnned

harvey23

In Response to Re: clever or ridiculous?:

Villain had something like king 3 of spades and was on his tenth can of beer. But Harvey u say in ur analysis of Eagles play, that he shud fold to the raise on the flop. Which surely makes his/my play one that will work more times than not. As I said on another thread, eagles laptop is broken atm and the fold button isn't working! Pownnnnned
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

oh was villian you, if thats the case, there is a whole "metagame" thing going on, as you both know the hands are going to be shown on TV, you lot are going to be differently, so the levels of thinking are much higher and differnt . Your line looks strong here with an Ax type hand, But I dont like the bet/fold on the turn

Eagle26

ok hand 2 was against dohhhhhhh, loads of previous history against each other both kinda know how each other plays and yep there is a whole 'metagame' thing going on. however forget all that, my turn raise actually aint great is it. all this stuff about only worse hands fold i totally understand and i really need to think alot more clearly before i do things.
but surely this isnt always a bad play? my hand is extremly weak so obviously im re-raising reppin alot better than what i actually have- am i never gonna get better hands to fold here? lets say im deeper stacked and i put him on a weak hand but possibly a weak hand but better than mine-surely i have to raise? if i believe i can make him fold.
obviously this hand aint the greatest example but ill try and get one over the next few days which might explain a bit better what im talkin about. the whole 'metagame' and knowin my opponent (the fact he is prepared to bet fold with medium strength hands) then thats why i made the move here, its not great coz if he does hold the ace im stacked, but i just didnt believe, but i wasnt confident enough im my hand to call it down. and too stubborn to fold!
my thought processes are really bad aint they lol how i have ever made money at this game is a complete mystery, but its good though because i am definatly learnin. cheers for replys

beaneh

In Response to Re: clever or ridiculous?:

ok hand 2 was against dohhhhhhh, loads of previous history against each other both kinda know how each other plays and yep there is a whole 'metagame' thing going on. however forget all that, my turn raise is actually aint great is it. all this stuff about only worse hands fold i totally understand and i really need to work and think alot more before i do things, but surely this isnt always the case? my hand is extremly weak so obviously im re-raising reppin alot better than what i actually have- am i never gonna get better hands to fold here? lets say im deeper stacked and i put him on a weak hand but possibly a weak hand but better than mine-surely i have to raise? if i believe i can make him fold. obviously this hand aint the greatest example but ill try and get one over the next few days which might explain a bit better what im talkin about. the whole 'metagame' and knowin my opponent (the fact he is prepared to bet fold with medium strength hands) then thats why i made the move here, its not great coz if he does hold the ace im stacked, but i just didnt believe, but i wasnt confident enough im my hand to call it down.  my thought processes are really bad aint they lol how i ave ever made money at this game is a complete mystery, but its good though because i am learnin. cheers for replys
Posted by Eagle26

press return every so often during posts it makes them alot easier to read  /return

see....

as you say if you have them on a weak made hand then raising when you have the worst hand is going to be better than calling obv! I would call the turn in the 2nd hand if I felt he could be at it alot on the flop I don't see what hands he folds that we aren't beating really. he's repping a very narrow range of value hands, if you think he's at it he must have other hands like air, oesd's etc which you are still beating with your pair.

pryce6

In hand two - does villain never play an ace that you can get to fold that way?

Eagle26

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
hansol	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£7.22
billytheki	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£25.50
	Your hole cards	7 7
mickyboy07	Fold
12monkeys	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£17.94
Alfie4paws	Raise		£0.40	£0.65	£10.06
Eagle26	Call		£0.40	£1.05	£19.04
hansol	Call		£0.35	£1.40	£6.87
billytheki	Fold
12monkeys	Call		£0.30	£1.70	£17.64
Flop
		4 Q 6
hansol	Check
12monkeys	Check
Alfie4paws	Check
Eagle26	Check
Turn
		3
hansol	Check
12monkeys	Check
Alfie4paws	Bet		£0.85	£2.55	£9.21
Eagle26	Call		£0.85	£3.40	£18.19
hansol	Fold
12monkeys	Call		£0.85	£4.25	£16.79
River
		J
12monkeys	Check
Alfie4paws	Check

on river - check behind? bet for value? bet because i may not be ahead but a strong bet could take them off the pot?  flop should i bet there against 3 opponents when checked to me? turn correct call or should i raise?

YOUNG_GUN

i'd check behind as not going to get much value unless ur beat, only 1 overcard so chance is you could win and not have to risk any more chips to do so. by not betting the river you are at risk to a better hand eg. queen with low kicker beating u but at this level think even with a value bet they are not folding

Eagle26

there is 2 overcards. when the original raiser checks the flop i instantly remove hands like AA/KK/AQ/KQ/QJ from his potential hole cards maybe he tryin to slow play set  but unlikely. i check the flop because of the simple fact there are 3 opponents, i dont wanna be check raised.

when the turn comes and i see both the first 2 players check again then the orginal raiser bets out i call because i dont give him any credit for a big hand or he would of bet the flop - maybe he is havin a stab with pocket 10's/99's/88's/ak  3 of which im still losin too, when one of the other guys call i put him on nothing but a diamond flush draw which he has just picked up. so river comes a jack 2 overcards to my 77's any bet here of any of the 2 villians i probably fold but when they both check im now sure none are strong, but i still may be losing to any random j or medium pp higher than mine.

so i decided to bet the river i made it £4 both folded. should i have bet the river though?? i know im gonna get told that im only gettin called if im beat, but because i was unsure if my 77's were anygood at the end i thought the only way i can guarantee winning is to bet because i dont believe either held anything strong enough to call.

offshoot

you dont think if they have a hand better than yours they are gonna call? your hand reading up to then was fine but your tihnking on the river i dont agree with. Bet sizing should probably be leaning more towards value betting, like £1.30 or something hoping someone has 56 rather than trying to get people to fold better hands. Also good idea to save yourself a bit of money when you are beat.

beaneh

if you bet bet very small. or just check.

harvey23

77s hand.

you called to set mine with 77s 4way which is cool, you missed on the flop, I would just be looking to c-f this now whenever someone bets. If this was against 1/2 players i might bet the flop for protection/value. Against 3 players you are only ever going to get called by better.

Check/fold turn

check river. By betting you esstiently turn your hand into a bluff.