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Omaha hand

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited July 2010 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
xSmall blind  50.00 50.00 1450.00
aBig blind  100.00 150.00 545.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • 9
  • 6
  • 10
     
mrlogic Fold     
RUGRATS Fold     
notarat Fold     
The_Don90 Call  100.00 250.00 1650.00
xRaise  150.00 400.00 1300.00
aCall  100.00 500.00 445.00
The_Don90 Call  100.00 600.00 1550.00
Flop
   
  • A
  • 10
  • 8
     
xAll-in  1300.00 1900.00 0.00
Top two in Omaha i know isnt really that strong. Ive played with my opponent before in NL and know he bets on draws, and hed been doing this alot in this game. Was it a straight or flush draw, or both. Can i call?

Not sure what to do here at alll.

Comments

  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited July 2010
    Difficult to say guessin mere novice or talon would be the best to ask here, talon has actually set up a thread a couple of days ago on omaha maybe ask him
  • TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited July 2010
      Very interesting hand.


       4 possibilities come to mind for what he is shoving with.
      1)  chip steal bluff
      2)  flopped set
      3)  Flush Draw
      4)  OESD

       Also bear in mind it could also be any combo of 2,3 and 4 including all of them.

      If it is a draw he is betting even straight and flush then you are getting the right odds to call and should do.The biggest concern i would have is not with either of those but with the flopped set which would put you behind and drawing very thin.
      Omaha is a game where draws are bet a lot more than NLHE and personally i would put him on either a draw or steal with this hand .

       You have to gamble at some point playing the game and for you i think this is as good a situation as any to get your chips in whilst you are more than likely ahead.So for me i would be making this call but it would not be the easiest call to make
  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited July 2010
    Thanks talon. Ill show you what happened
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    xSmall blind  50.00 50.00 1450.00
    aBig blind  100.00 150.00 545.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • 9
    • 6
    • 10
         
    mrlogic Fold     
    RUGRATS Fold     
    notarat Fold     
    The_Don90 Call  100.00 250.00 1650.00
    xRaise  150.00 400.00 1300.00
    aCall  100.00 500.00 445.00
    The_Don90 Call  100.00 600.00 1550.00
    Flop
       
    • A
    • 10
    • 8
         
    xAll-in  1300.00 1900.00 0.00
    aFold     
    The_Don90 Call  1300.00 3200.00 250.00
    xShow
    • 8
    • 7
    • 9
    • J
       
    The_Don90 Show
    • A
    • 9
    • 6
    • 10
       
    Turn
       
    • 9
         
    River
       
    • J
         
    xWin Straight to the Jack 3200.00  3200.00
    As you said not an easy call but i eventually made it. Top two as good at the time. Although he had every straight draw in the book i think, too many cards for me to avoid in the end, he hit two of them lol.

    Can i just ask Talon since your good in omaha would i expect to see a raise with a 7,8,9,J with 3 of one suit pre flop in most games of omaha? Also is it a correct call with 2 suits covered myself? And should i have been the origional raiser?
  • CLIOKIDCLIOKID Member Posts: 783
    edited July 2010
    Am I the only one confused as to how the guy open shoves for 1300 into a pot of 600 in PLO?
  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha hand:
    Am I the only one confused as to how the guy open shoves for 1300 into a pot of 600 in PLO?
    Posted by CLIOKID
    I believe it was just Omaha, not Pot limit.
  • TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited July 2010
      In response to your question about the hand and suitedness of it. Firstly i am very weary of classing anything below the Q as a flush draw anyway due to the increased chances of the over flush being held.

       When assessing any starting hand you first of all count all your nut drawing hands. In his hand he has 78,79,89,8J and 9J which is 5 out of the 6 with the sixth drawing to the second nuts so i would deem this to be a very strong starting hand which has lots of possiblities of flopping the nuts or a nut draw.

      In your hand you had AT,9T 96 and A6 suited which is 4 nut drawing hands so you would be quite well justified to have raised preflop yourself.

      The purpose of a preflop raise is to build the pot and to get rid of the weak hands( that is the any4 card merchants).The hand described above is a good standard omaha hand with 2 players playing a pot with great starting hands and both getting enough of the flop to warrant going all the way with it. If you ever get in that situation again just play it exactly the same way because to fold that hand at any point would be really silly.
  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited July 2010
    How is he a favourite vs any drawing hand? He is an underdog to many wrap + flush draws/back door extensions such as KcJc9d7d. Calling allin with two pair, even top two, without extensions in PLO is a quick way to go broke. However as this is a very small stakes game and the villain could quite literally have a bare ace here it's fine to get it in with top two in this spot.  
  • TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha hand:
    How is he a favourite vs any drawing hand? He is an underdog to many wrap + flush draws/back door extensions such as KcJc9d7d.
    Posted by BrownnDog
     At no point did i say he was favourite against any drawing hand.What i did say is that he would be ahead and have the odds to make the call. Especially since he would have redraws of his own.
  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha hand:
      In response to your question about the hand and suitedness of it. Firstly i am very weary of classing anything below the Q as a flush draw anyway due to the increased chances of the over flush being held.    When assessing any starting hand you first of all count all your nut drawing hands. In his hand he has 78,79,89,8J and 9J which is 5 out of the 6 with the sixth drawing to the second nuts so i would deem this to be a very strong starting hand which has lots of possiblities of flopping the nuts or a nut draw.   In your hand you had AT,9T 96 and A6 suited which is 4 nut drawing hands so you would be quite well justified to have raised preflop yourself.   The purpose of a preflop raise is to build the pot and to get rid of the weak hands( that is the any4 card merchants).The hand described above is a good standard omaha hand with 2 players playing a pot with great starting hands and both getting enough of the flop to warrant going all the way with it. If you ever get in that situation again just play it exactly the same way because to fold that hand at any point would be really silly.
    Posted by Talon
    Thanks Talon. Glad you see it as decent Omaha. I just really started omaha a few months ago and only really play it as a step away from hold em which im frustrated, although this was only the second time ive failed to cash ive found it a very interesting and different game, one im keen to learn on but feel i need to get my BR management sorted first, this was a lower staked £1.15 game, which in all honesty is out of my bankroll expessially for a game im still learning.

    My biggest worry is always starting hands. this is something im good in holdem which has allowed me to break it up the way you have, but i always miss one or two combinations and have often folded bigger hands.

    Ill post a few more in your topic to discuss areas where i want to improve on. Unfortunetly this hand in this case crippled me, which didnt help with an undefendable BB hand of 4,4,4,4 which left me pretty much dead and burried and ended shoving on a flush draw knowing my opponent couldnt fold and then just praying he either had nothing or id hit it. Which neither happened to be the case.

    Thanks again mate
  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited July 2010
    "biggest concern i would have is not with either of those but with the flopped set which would put you behind"

    Sorry but I inferred from that statement you believe that if the Villain has any hand other than a set then we are a favourite against them. 

    How do you know he is ahead? Ahead of what? And how do you know if he has the "odds to make the call" when he can be as much as a 2-1 underdog after Villain has just bet twice the size of the pot thus getting terrible pot odds.
  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited July 2010
    2 pair with no str8 or flush draw to speak of is a weak hand at omaha, you have 6 outs for the FH and nowt else in my books dont get involved wait for a better spot.... you will win more long term!
  • MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha hand:
    2 pair with no str8 or flush draw to speak of is a weak hand at omaha, you have 6 outs for the FH and nowt else in my books dont get involved wait for a better spot.... you will win more long term!
    Posted by waynecure
    4 outs.
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