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This smells fishy to me help

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited March 2011 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
The_Don90 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £4.38
xBig blind  £0.04 £0.06 £2.38
  Your hole cards
  • 9
  • 9
     
russia Fold     
xRay_y Fold     
spornybol Fold     
buzzram03 Call  £0.04 £0.10 £1.67
The_Don90 Raise  £0.18 £0.28 £4.20
xCall  £0.16 £0.44 £2.22
buzzram03 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 4
  • A
  • A
     
The_Don90 Bet  £0.22 £0.66 £3.98
xAll-in  £2.22 £2.88 £0.00
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Comments

  • lynx3ffectlynx3ffect Member Posts: 452
    edited July 2010
    yeh smells like u only beat a bluff
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited July 2010
    Regardless whether its a miracle and someone has underpair to you which i doubt it, its impossible to call here

    look at his chipstack in relation to the bet, if he is bluffing then fair play to him but its not worth risking it with the ace on board as you know people are more likely to call with any ace so would put him on a low ace here

    Fold like a mofo

    Btw dont like the way you have played this hand, pre would raise more to 24, on the flop you have bet 1/2 pot roughly you want to at least bet 3/4. your bets so small gives people the chance to bluff you in this spot still above though
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  • Donut64Donut64 Member Posts: 2,666
    edited July 2010
     If he thinks you have an ace the two hands he would definatly make this play with would be A4 or pocket 4s making you pay if you want a chance to hit your kicker or if they are playing any other hand this way they dont believe you have the ace and they are are trying to win the pot there and then. If you dont know the mentality of the player you are playing I suppose you have to let it go but keep an eye on how they are playing!
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
     If he thinks you have an ace the two hands he would definatly make this play with would be A4 or pocket 4s making you pay if you want a chance to hit your kicker or if they are playing any other hand this way they dont believe you have the ace and they are are trying to win the pot there and then. If you dont know the mentality of the player you are playing I suppose you have to let it go but keep an eye on how they are playing!
    Posted by Donut64
    Really ?
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited July 2010
    but you have two pairs! id call fwiw then make a note
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  • Donut64Donut64 Member Posts: 2,666
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help : Really ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
     
     Yes Imo if he believed the other person had an ace he knew he would get a call and would be in front it would be a very obviose move to me! Im not saying it would be the right play but i dont think moving all-in with any hand is the right play here!
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  • CowgomooCowgomoo Member Posts: 749
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
    but you have two pairs! id call fwiw then make a note
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    this, you'd be surprised how many times he will have nothing here.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2010

    Theres nothing he could do this with that you can beat.

    Not even a flush draw out which you can convince youself he has....

    What would you do here if you held ace 5 facing that shove? - u still can't beat anything? - so would that be a fold too?
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
    Theres nothing he could do this with that you can beat. Not even a flush draw out which you can convince youself he has.... What would you do here if you held ace 5 facing that shove? - u still can't beat anything? - so would that be a fold too?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    The villain could just be thinking "we can't haves the ace here cus theres already 2 out there" and be shoving any random hand.

    With ace 5 I would insta call as its a lot less likely he has an ace and we have all bluffs like drawing dead.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help : The villain could just be thinking "we can't haves the ace here cus theres already 2 out there" and be shoving any random hand. With ace 5 I would insta call as its a lot less likely he has an ace and we have all bluffs like drawing dead.
    Posted by yb
    This is the type of optimistic thinking/praying turns me into even more of a compulsive calling station!!

    Yeh I would call with the ace 5 too, obv, but using the initial logic, which I used to conclude the 9's are no good, theres only A2,3,and 4 in the guys shoving range here (assuming he's not a maniac) that I can beat.

    A bluff from villian here is absolute madness.....coz how often is hereo raising pre then c betting an ace? - must be alot of the time right? - so his all in bluff has to work a huge amount of the time to make it profitable?

    Got a hand I remember from last week, I'll try and find it.....
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2010

    K that didn't take long.....

    Everyone knows this villain on sky poker! I cant figure him out as he plays differently every time I see him!

    Some times he's solid, other times he's super spewy, and he's generally pretty aggressive.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    DOHHHHHHH Big blind  £0.30 £0.30 £30.39
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		     
    xxxRaise  £1.50 £1.80 £31.67
    Snaeffels Fold     
    rtc Fold     
    blondynka7 Fold     
    DOHHHHHHH Raise  £4.50 £6.30 £25.89
    xxxCall  £3.30 £9.60 £28.37
    Flop
       
    • 3
    • A
    • 3
    		     
    DOHHHHHHH Bet  £6.60 £16.20 £19.29
    xxx All-in  £28.37 £44.57 £0.00
    DOHHHHHHH Fold     
    xxxShow
    • 9
    • 4
    		   
    xxWin  £21.66  £21.66
    xxxReturn  £21.77 £1.14 £43.43
    I mean, what do you make of this? Surely this play on the flop has to work like 70 +% of the time for it to be good long term?

    If my 3 betting range from the bb includes AQs+ and JJ+ against an UTG raiser - is it such a krazy move?

    Wadda ya think?
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited July 2010
    But if we have Ace 5 his range isn't the same as when we have 99 due to card removal effect, i.e. there is only 1 ace left in the pack so his range is now a lot more weighted towards bluffs than value hands.

    Yeh with 99 its a pretty hard decision readless and a fold here is fine as well imo, but normally when I'm in 2 minds I just turn into a calling station as well lol, probably convincing myself that most players at 4NL would slowplay an ace here.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited July 2010

    If i was in this spot on the flop i would play it the same but after the re-raise to all in it can go either way here. you say he's solid sometimes and others crazy im assuming you didnt know what mood he was in at the time?

    i would be prepared to call him on the basis at least 50% of the time this would be the correct play and your ahead of his range

    If you have a read and he is playing crazy then auto call, if he is playing solid would be a fold all day as the worst possible flop for your kings, flush draw, the ace also a pair on the board but if this player is inconsistent for the price your getting this has got to be a call

    note didn't actually read what he had and thought you called and didnt fold, im suprised how the villain played it but fair play got you of your genuine hand

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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited July 2010
    Yeh his play with 94 is pretty spazzy especially as AX type hands make up a lot of your 3 bet range. Fwiw I'd fold in that spot and would need to have a very good specific read on the villain to make the call.

    Also the fact the Ah is out there and we have the Kh means its a lot less likely he has a fd as well.
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive Member Posts: 839
    edited July 2010
    I think the player just got played in your case, dohhh... he knows that you'll happily c-bet 90% of flops regardless of whether you hit or not, and is well aware the odds of you representing the ace without one in your hand is pretty high. He also knows you're good enough in that spot to lay down any hand that doesn't include an ace or a three.

    I doubt he tries that against many players he doesn't have a solid idea on play.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2010

    Yeh he owned me in that hand, he's pretty volatile alot of the time, so he probably read me for 3 betting TT-KK for value......then decided a shove would get me off.

    5/6 hands later, I found out he must have been on super duper tilt for some reason, as his last hand at the table was just krazy.

    Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    rtc Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £42.18
    argo Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £32.34
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • 9
    		     
    speew Fold     
    DOHHHHHHH Fold     
    xxx Raise  £1.50 £1.95 £26.13
    Snaeffels All-in  £42.54 £44.49 £0.00
    rtc Fold     
    argo Fold     
    xxxAll-in  £26.13 £70.62 £0.00
    Snaeffels Unmatched bet  £14.91 £55.71 £14.91
    xxShow
    • K
    • J
    		   
    Snaeffels Show
    • K
    • A
    		   
    Flop
       
    • Q
    • 2
    • J
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 8
    		     
    River
       
    • 10
    		     
    Snaeffels Win Straight to the Ace £53.91  £68.82
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
     He who run's away ........... did you.? 
    Posted by logdon
    I didnt. I seen it for the bluff a number of players here seen it for. I couldnt make sence of an Ace making this bet at the time.

    So i called and made a note afterwords.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited July 2010
    in the KK hand, he didnt own you, his play is just super spewy , when BB 3bets an utg open its 99% of the time a premium hand of QQ+,AK.  if he wants to get you off KK,QQ he should just float the flop and make a small bet on the turn as that is what he is doing with his AQ/AJ hands. if i were you i would cbet smaller on the flop.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help:
    In Response to Re: This smells fishy to me help : Well,  are you going to keep us all in Suspense. "Was it a Bluff" or did he get over excited at having the Ace.?  The little Devil on my shoulder would have called. !!! and then said Ooops
    Posted by logdon
    He had the ace with a Jack
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