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How to play relatively strong hands UTG?

DeucesLiveDeucesLive Member Posts: 839
edited July 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Firstly, this is assuming you have a deep enough stack to play (say 20+BBs). Play is admittedly simpler with lower stacks- also, assuming it's later in a tournament where blinds are reasonably high.

Hands in question are things like KQ/KJ/QJ/AJ/A10 in early position, and mid pairs like 66 to 99. Assuming you raise, what do you do to a reraise, which comes in quite frequently?

I struggle with hands like this and often end up either losing chips when I get called, miss the flop and either get raised off or fail to bluff, essentially destroying my entire chipstack, or not knowing exactly what the correct play is if reraised. Calling utg has to be a bad play I'm sure, so it's raise or fold- main question being, once you raise is it a statement of commitment to call any raise (unless maybe there's an allin and call) or do you fold to a strong bet from similar stacks?

This is a major problem I'm trying to work through in my game at the moment, really unsure how to play them correctly.

Comments

  • batman4batman4 Member Posts: 188
    edited July 2010
    great  question and one that could have many different answers, or ways of playing these type of hands, firstly as you say, the hypothetical play is your strong stacked 20bb near the later stages of a tournament ..

    my advice would be, firstly why would it be bad play to just flat call, after all the hands you are describing are not really strong hands, they  are  what i would consider to be second grade, although very nice to go fishing with for as little as  possible before a flop is seen.

    not all poker is about aggression, in fact the skill factor is trying to outplay opponents.. so if it were me i'd flat call to  see if or where the raise might come from and how much the raise might be. if it were a standard 3bb raise that's fine with only the one player ,your in  good shape chip wise to see the flop.
    raising utg (with a 20bb stack) is usually a way of bullying a table to be 'the captain' but it's also a way of losing where you are in any given hand or situation once the flop is down.
    if played the way i describe by  firstly flat calling the bb then calling the 3bb raise to see the flop , you then have the lead as to what that flop might be to the strength of what is after all a second grade starting hand, plus if you hit big with say  your hole  cards of KJ on a flop  of  maybe AQ10 or KJ3 or  QJJ, then it's  a question of  'get the batmobile robin, where  going into action'
    if  you miss the flop , well it's  an easy check and fold to any bet ..

    the  point being is this, it's all very well to be 'chippy' or there abouts but while your under no pressure in these circumstances, let those who are short stacked make the running, there's no point in getting busy to  fatten up someone who goes all-in on what might have been the utg raise by you, where you  might now feel  obliged to  call off some more chips  to  see them , or pass  after  having made the first move of a 3bb raise
     
    poker is not all about  maths, it's  also not all about science, it's all about doing something different sometimes to confuse your opponents.
    so  my  conclusion is, never think  flat calling utg is weak play, with strong or second grade cards it (the flat call) already has the opposition wondering what your cards may be and with your power of chips they  are the one who has to worry  about decision making  not you..

    glk ..
  • crhealy27crhealy27 Member Posts: 9
    edited July 2010
    Myself in that situation I wouldn't bother with most of those hands only really pairs 88 up & AK/AQ as often you'll be re-raised pre by a small stack or called n miss the flop against another big stack and is it worth risking your tournament on a flip out of position or a situation where you are dominated. If i'm playing a hand from any position I tend to use a 3x raise but can understand a bigger raise say 3.5x or 4x if you feel that will get the result you want.

    The biggest question is what do you hope to get out of the hand? Did you just want to take the blinds or do you want to play a big pot with one of thoese hands probably out of position. Following that what is your plan on the further streets if you are called both if you hit or miss the flop?

    It all comes down to your playing style/table image and your feel for the table it is all perspective.

  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited July 2010
    I think that would be bad play flat calling UTG in most instances, should always raise your good hands in this spot. you are out of position each street and ideally you want to try and still dictate play with your strong hand, you wanna get rid of the rubbish firstly. Also you cant guarantee that anyone will raise after you, unless you know there is someone who is likely to then this may be a good play but otherwise call UTG is not good in tournament or cash, i used to do this occasionally but have been told its not good and saves getting in difficult spots if you play your good hands strong here and much easier to read your opponent this way also

    edit- this is in response to 2nd post
  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited July 2010
    out of that lot i would open AJ suited and 66-99, fold the rest unless their is a very weak player in the blinds, or its a very nitty table & you have a good image
  • Donut64Donut64 Member Posts: 2,666
    edited July 2010
     I would say approx 3 in 5 fold 1 in 5 call and 1 in 5 re-re-raise to their re-raise. I feel you have to mix it up because other wise you will become to easy to read. When making these decissions it is always helpfull if you have gleaned some info on your fellow players.
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