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eugh!
DOHHHHHHH
Member Posts: 17,929
Hate the flop as it's so easy to get attatched to, yet im so likely to be behind.....
What do u do firstly on the flop?
- then the turn?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| gangstar19 | Small blind | £0.15 | £0.15 | £7.65 | |
| Triumph62 | Big blind | £0.30 | £0.45 | £30.96 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| DOHHHHHHH | Raise | £1.20 | £1.65 | £74.07 | |
| shez786 | Call | £1.20 | £2.85 | £20.50 | |
| lynx3ffect | Fold | ||||
| Imatiger | Call | £1.20 | £4.05 | £43.39 | |
| gangstar19 | Fold | ||||
| Triumph62 | Call | £0.90 | £4.95 | £30.06 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Triumph62 | Bet | £1.80 | £6.75 | £28.26 | |
| DOHHHHHHH | Call | £1.80 | £8.55 | £72.27 | |
| shez786 | Fold | ||||
| Imatiger | Call | £1.80 | £10.35 | £41.59 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Triumph62 | Check | ||||
| DOHHHHHHH | Check | ||||
| Imatiger | Bet | £10.35 | £20.70 | £31.24 | |
Comments
I mised off the bit where triumph folded...
Pre flop im probably more likley to go for a £1.40-£1.60 raise. I imagine this may not make much differance to the hand but might force it to HU rather than 4 way,
My flop raise would probably be a little more. I remember a line you gave me in a video you sent, C/bet maybe a little small it got me a result, but here it stayed 3 handed.
Say the turn you probably hate more than the flop, a Q or K is possibly still good for you on the river but thats not alot of outs, however as played i probably end up folding, although we all know i am probably the worst for getting over attached to Tp+Tk. However i think this is just a danger board, its so easy for A10 or AQ to be in pre flop both have you crushed.
Best of luck mate.
I would usually raise the flop up to about £6/7, because a flat call gives me no information about how strong the other two players are on this flop and as we had the pre-flop betting lead it shows that we are not scared of this flop. We do have a strong hand, and we do not have to be behind here!
If we get action it really depends on our read of the other players about how we proceed.
If you flat call the flop, as you have done, i don't understand why you don't bet out on the turn card. by checking you have given initiative to the button and he probably takes this pot down now,(possibly with KQ) i guess you fold??
About a month ago, I would always be raising this flop. But recently Im trying to re-build my game and the fundementals/logic behind it - using the advice I get here.
Apparently the term "asking a question" is frowned upon, I think you are supposed to get the answer to the question by playing down the streets, not 100% sure, about it yet, maybe I will be when everything starts to fit into place.
"Asking the question" definitielty seems the easier way to go about it IMO - but is it the most profitable long term?
The turn card was just the killer card for me, and I went straight into check fold mode against these villians, anything I beat on the flop when there was a bet in front of me, and a call behind, I pretty much lose to now - Im cluthching at straws if Im trying to put him on a hand I beat, and no doubt if he's bluffing, or betting for value, i'll be facing another bet on the river - and there are definitely "better spots"/easier ways to take money from this table.
(staking off with 1 pair facing a river shove into a £6 pot, ordering a kebab, and falling asleep on the sofa surrounded by beer cans aint the way btw)
Question - I hear the better players here in the clinic say they would Bet-Fold in alot of scenarios...
Isn't this just "asking a question"- Worded differently?
So if you're betting for value, then fold....havent u turned ur hand into a bluff??
When you bet-fold - does that mean its a mis read?
If your betting for value, surely you should be snap calling/shoving over a raise - not folding!?
And when you bet fold, you have done so because you learnt some information you didn't have prior to making the bet in the first place - therefore, although you didn't "ask a question as such" - You definitely got an answer !! (the information that made you fold to the raise) - Otherwise, why bet in the first place?
Im beginning to think its a load of nonsense and losing faith!!! HELP!
If anyone knows what Im trying to get at here, can you just give me an over-view of what I actually mean? Im struggling to word it coz I don't really understand it.
Hi JJ,
I am still a little worried about posting in the clinic on cash hands as i am not really qualified to do so... So i am only expressing my opinion from my limited experience. Where is the dym clinic, or the take on tikay mtt clinic, i would feel more comfortable there?!:)
When i play cash, I just play the way that i am comfortable with and am used to, and i have no issues in "asking the question" in a standard ABC way. I have no idea whether this is more profitable long term or not, but i guess is isn't because i too cannot ignore the cash experts if i too want to improve my cash game. So i would be interested to keep reading and learning from beaneh and co. I hate the thought of bet folding, and check calling 24/7, but if that's the way to make proper consistent money at cash maybe i should start to listen...
The blatantly obvious part of the hand you have posted, is that you are out of position, and this is the key here imo. But does that HAVE to mean that we play it passively? hmmm
There are certain spots where you could say you were "asking a question" but the reason the phrase is frowned upon is that it shows a lack of understanding. If youre asking a question then youre asking yourself the wrong questions. It shows a weak thought process. It also leads to bad play because you can start to turn made hands into bluffs or induce bluffs because youre opponent can see what youre doing and will react accordingly.
Not sure if that makes sense, very tired.
We play against a range of hands our opponent might have. If that range contains a lot of hands worse than ours that will call a bet then we'd be losing value by not betting.
So if I could put 10 hands in his range for example. and 7 beat me, 3 don't should I still be betting?
How about if I can beat 2and 8 beat me? Is it better to be pro active when most of the hands in his range will beat me, and save money (a bet). - Here the 2 occasions I am ahead, I will get paid, but the other 8 I will spend money by betting and realising I must be behind....
I guess Im asking what %age of my opponents percieved range should I be able to beat, to justify betting for value?
say on a K2256 (no flushes) board villains calling & raising range is exactly A2,55,KQ,KJ,KT and we hold AK
there are 6 combos of A2 (3aces x 2deuces) and there are 3 combos of 55 (5c is on board so 5d5h 5d5s 5s5h)
there are 8 combos each of KQ, KJ & KT ( 2 remaining K x 4(Q,J,T) so we lose to 9 combos but beat 24 combos.
as equity on river is 100% or 0% our equity vs that whole range is 24/(24+9)*100 ~72% so we make lots of monies by betting despite losing when villain raises when he has A2/55.
done this in my head over lunch so some of the math might be slightly wrong
so what im trying to say is when you value bet thin its likey that you will be behind and you should find this out by the response but your betting solely for value and you get the info for free, have i ballsed this up? lol