complete omaha newbie - my learning journey

phil12uk

I spent a lot of time with Dave Bland at SPT Swansea learning Omaha as I know I should be able to play it.  This hand came up in a DYM and I insta called as only 1 hand is beating me.  I was called a 'donk' and that the opponent 'thought i could play'. 

Am I being hyper sensitive here or is this an easy call with top set? I honestly am finding it hard to come to grips with omaha and would appreciate any assistance.

susie2pink Small blind  25.00 25.00 2940.00 phil12uk Big blind  50.00 75.00 1490.00   Your hole cards 10 4 K 10       BANDICOOT Call  50.00 125.00 1970.00 WALLY423 Call  50.00 175.00 1150.00 vilCall  50.00 225.00 1320.00 mrgoose Call  50.00 275.00 2855.00 susie2pink Call  25.00 300.00 2915.00 phil12uk Check     Flop    6 9 10       susie2pink Check     phil12uk Bet  225.00 525.00 1265.00 BANDICOOT Fold     WALLY423 Fold     vilAll-in  1320.00 1845.00 0.00 mrgoose Fold     susie2pink Fold     phil12uk Call  1095.00 2940.00 170.00 phil12uk Show 10 4 K 10    vilShow Q 8 A 7    Turn    J       River    Q       phil12uk Win Straight to the King 2940.00  3110.00

Sky_Dave

I think the hand plays itself moreorless Phil, and I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. You've not got out of line before the flop, you've flopped the second nuts and the sng format means you'll want to double up to ensure you make the money.

After leading out the 225 on the flop, he can be shoving with 2 pair or sets of his own, and while the straight is also a possibility, you at least have outs with the board pairing or running QJ/spades. You've got 6 full house outs and two quad outs for 'pure outs', as well as a bit of extra equity juice from the spades/QJ nonsense. You're about a 40% dog here, meaning the maths makes it a simple call when the pot is offering around 18 to 11 (1845 to 1095)

I'd tell the villain "nh", put a note on him that he's shoving the nuts on what is reasonably dry flop and move on to the next one.

BANDICOOT

You played well Phil

Talon

  Firstly may i say welcome to the 4 card game. The hand itself pretty much plays itself as dave stated.


  I would just like to talk about a change in mentality that needs to be looked at though. When you thought about the shove by your opponent you only saw the 10 10 in your hand and only thought about the 87 possibly in your opponents ("only one hand beating me").This is bad thinking in omaha because both you and your opponent have 6 hands each and all of them need to be considered. So what you should be thinking is about what else you and your opponent have and how that can affect the later streets.

  Things that need to be considered are redraws and extensions. Hands like JQ which have a higher straight draw, or 66 or 99 with his 78 to take away some of your full house outs and give him quad outs. As you can see in the hand as played out that although you called the bet with 10 10 you won the hand with K 10.

  So you need to get into the thought process of playing with and against multiple hands and not to focus too much on just one combo in your hand or your opponents potential holdings

phil12uk

Thanks guys. Think I'll just post my hands I'm struggling with on here and see if I can improve.

This next hand I would like to know about my pre flop play and what my move should then be on the flop?  My preflop raise is down to 2 things - position and my perceived strength of hand (although I feel I'm gonna get shot down for saying that).

IMAROCK Small blind  15.00 15.00 3633.00 blankcheck Big blind  30.00 45.00 1840.00   Your hole cards A Q A Q       Hotwheals Fold     thetram Raise  90.00 135.00 1956.00 V Call  90.00 225.00 816.00 phil12uk Raise  330.00 555.00 1160.00 IMAROCK Fold     blankcheck Fold     thetram Call  240.00 795.00 1716.00 V Call  240.00 1035.00 576.00 Flop    K J 8       thetram Check     VAll-in  576.00 1611.00 0.00

Hotwheals

First of all phil with that hand it looks great, but in my opinion its a dangerous hand because it can get you into a lot of trouble if not played right. You might have seen in the game we have just played when most people have had AA they have shoved, and normally this is my tactic too as you really dont want to be going in 2 or 3 handed in omaha with AAQQ. If you really dont fancy shoving make shore you at least make the bet big enough to only bring in one player with u, becasue if you dont you are more than likely going to get outdrawn.

Talon

  Phil the main cruteria for a starting hand is both quality and quantity of nut drawing hands. In this example you have very strong ones but there are only 3 of them out of your 6.This is not a bad hand by any stretch of the imagination but also it is far away for perfect.


  When we look at starting hands AAKK ds is the best possible but even that is only about 60-65%favourite preflop against a hnad like 89TJ ds. So as you can see in omaha you are never really that far in front preflop and so the urge to be committing yourself to the hand at this stage needs to be controlled.

  The hand itself is fully defined from the flop onwards and so this is where you need to be making the decisions.For this reason i think 3-betting preflop is always a bad idea because it takes the size of the pot out of control before you know where you are in the hand.It is because of this you are being asked to make this very big decision when only the flop has been seen and you can have no real idea where you stand and what your opponent has.

CLIOKID

I don't lead the flop in hand one.

It is muli-way and 78 is nigh on certain to be out there somewhere.

C/C, try to fill up and or throw away on turn if facing more resistance.

YoungUn

At least you've learnt to button raise with better hands than T863.

You are improving

phil12uk

In Response to Re: complete omaha newbie - my learning journey:

At least you've learnt to button raise with better hands than T863. You are improving
Posted by YoungUn

Yeah but surely position is key in any form of poker