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Collusion
cassielou
Member Posts: 4
Hello everyone i would love to hear from anyone who thinks they have suffered from collusion and lost money because of it.I recently played a dym with two players who are a well known couple on sky poker.Any two people or married couple playing the same stt have a real edge over the other individuals involved.By knowing their hole cards they have a great advantage,and can decide to involve themselves in a hand when they know certain cards are out.In my case they never once played a hand against each other.Many people have worries about online gambling and i feel sites such as these should be whiter than white.My complaint was dismissed by customer services on the basis that there was no evidence.What evidence could there be unless sky poker customer services were looking over their shoulders.In this day and age with online communication collusion is easy,but i feel the least that could be done is to disallow players from the same adress or the same bank account details or married couples.
Comments
THIS IS A VERY FAIR POINT AND I HAVE ALSO WITNESSED IT... NOT ALWAYS ON THIS SITE... HOWEVER U DO NEED FULL PROOF EVIDENCE,HAND HISTORY ETC...IF PEOPLE FOLD WITH A PREM HAND TO A MIN RAISE...OR ALLWAYS SHOVE AGAINST THERE COLLUDER... AND VICE VERSA THEN THERE IS A CASE.... I HAVE GOT ABOUT 4 FRIENDS ON SKY WHO I NOW AND AGAIN PLAY AGAINST IN LOW STAKES CASH/SNG.... IN NO WAY DO WE EVER COLLUDE AS IT IS CLASSED AS BRAGGING RIGHTS NEXT TIME WE R IN THE PUB!! I HAVE ALSO PLAYED AN SNG WITH MY OWN BROTHER IN AND TOOK HIM OUT, I COULD OF "CHIP DUMPED" BUT ITS ALL ABOUT THE BANTER AND KUDOS... I THINK THAT COLLUSION IS AIMED MORE AT THE MID -HIGH STAKES... AND BY THAT I MEAN £1-2..CASH TABS,., AND PROB £10 SNGS ETC.... SURELY THERE IS NO POINT IN COLLUDING WITH UR MATES IN A £1.10 SNG!! HOWVER I MAY B WRONG.... WITH REGARDS TO UR COMMENTS ABOUT A WELL KNOWN COUPLE... THERE ARE QUITE A FEW... MY ADVICE IS JUST KEEP AN EYE OUT ON BETTING PATTERNS ETC... MAKES NOTES AND KEEP FLAGGING IT UP..... I KNOW SKY DOES TAKE COLLUSION QUITE SERIOUS SO KEEP ON ABOUT IT... BUT MAKE SURE U HAVE THE FACTS... GOOD LUCK JIM;-)
You can be sure that we take this mater very seriously at Sky Poker. We have a dedicated team looking at every case of reported fraud. unfortunately i cant discuss any individual cases but you can be sure every report is thoroughly investigated .
If anyone does notice anything they feel is suspicious PLEASE report this to help@skypoker.com
for the official info about this take a look at our help and support section.
thanks guys,
Rich
Good post Cassielou - my story concerns a £20 sit and go dym I played last night.
It was four handed and I was the short stack. Now I know in this situation it is normal for everyone to call and then check it down so the short stack, in this case me, can be knocked out.
However I was under the impression that it is an unwritten rule that u cannot explicitly say this to the other players as this would be classified as collusion? Three times the other players openly told the 2nd in chips to go along with it, but he refused and I actually ended up cashing.
This naturally upset the third chip stack who eventually got knocked out and he berated the 2nd chip stack for not playing along, however he had openly asked him to collude repeatedly so I thought justice was served.
Anyway, it would be good to know other people's thoughts on this. Should it be ok for players to openly ask others to call and check it down to knock a player out? I know it is the right play but to openly say it is surely collusion and therefore cheating?
Good luck at the tables all.
wd on cashing..B LUKKY
Incidentally -
Another DYM situation that often arises is when there are four players remaining but is one is 'away' (either through hitting AWAY or being disconnected). The 'active' players often raise into the away players BB triggering the auto-fold, and therefore gradual chip-bleed. Is it considered collusion (or even just bad form) for players to discuss that raising tactic in the chat box?
Most people openly suggest this at the tables, if not directly then certianly indirectly.
I cannot see anything wrong with that particular situation tbh.
When watching a £20 dym once, I witnessed what was almost certainly collusion via 'chip dumping' to a very short stacked player when four handed. The large stacked player called for 300 in sb then folded the flop to a 80 all-in bet by the short BB.
I took down the players ids but forgot to report it.
I made a post not so long ago for players joining Skypoker, that when they fill in their application to put the name of the town and for it to be put on the avatar !! Why ? Well ok it's not that hard to lie about where your from but at least it gives a player half a chance when they sit at a cash table to check where all the players are from.
Lets face it, if you sat at a 'six-seat-er and the other five players where from the same town or near vicinity your not going to hang around very long.
This is fact, with online poker players do sit with laptops in groups in the same room together playing the same table. The use of messenger is rife, along with 'skype' , the problem there is it so hard to track.
My advice is, if your worried about collaboration on a cash table , don't stay with the same players for more than 20 mins..!!
Change you game to Sit-n-go or play a Multi Table
If playing any online poker event 'Cash' 'STT' even MTT and players speaking in the chat box telling other players what cards they have, or passed, or coaxing players to Call is Cheating !! You must tell customer care, they can find the chat for the game and read for themselves and take action
The idiot yank in the WSOP told his mate at the final table after he moved all-in saying "Top Top".. !!!! He was telling him he had the Top hand .. he was cheating the third player at the table by stopping his mate from calling. He new it was cheating and i swear if i'd been the third player, i would have turned the table over and called for a 'ruling' for the betting to be void /> He's a Cheat , end of story !!
So with online poker you don't have the luxury of a card room manager you can call over, however you could call customer care , tell them where the table is and what you believe to be happening .
It's in every ones interest that the Avatar shows where the players are from, however in 'cash or STT's if you don't feel comfortable on that table then move. It's up to each player to check all they can.
Don't rely on so called 'sophisticated technical self regulating site security' i'd doubt it exists !
You are the Guardians ..
What i feel is this, SkePoker is the safest site at the moment to play online poker, i do have my concerns for when they bring new 'down-loadable' software but there's no point in worrying about something that's not happened yet !!
glk all .. as the saying goes in " Hill Street Blues " .. "Lets be careful out there"
Benny
I understand your point, most experianced online players know that any bet to a 'away' player will be auto folded, I must admit, I do it take advantage of it. I don't actually consider it bad form. This is YOUR money you are gambling with, if the 'away' player is not there then I am not going to wait for him/her to return. I want them to fold asap so I can get on with the next hand, and I will keep doing it until they come back. This happened to me in a heads up tourney once, and the chips were quite even. The player left the table, all I had to do was keep raising to eventually blind him/her out the game, before thye come back, if you see what i mean.. Yes, it may come across as 'unfair/bad form or even a bit cruel' but as I said, this is YOUR money and plus I this is not against the ruels to do this. I actually don't get incolved in the chat box, and if I did, I would keep quite about ANY tactics like this, in my opinion, this is the right thing to do. This is definitely not collusion unless we can prove it.