Stupid Question or Huge Leak?

Bradnock

Over the last few weeks i have been running into AA with KK so much it has become a bit of a joke.

This scenario is mainly at $1/$2 or $200nl as some may prefer.

The typical scenarios arise when i have built up my stack to around 250bb and near enough every case i find myself against an opponent with 150bb -250bb, i raise in late position normally $10, get a RR from (Just one of the positions) UTG through to BB to $30, i will then rub my hands get a liitle excited and pop to $90, then comes the AI from the original RR. I know i have to call this, dont i?

Well i automatically call in this situation, often because there is so much money involved and having only call a small amount into the RR AI, however i have found of the last 7 times this has happend this week i have been up against AA 6 times and JJ once, they spiked the J on the turn. Lost to AA on all occasions, rightly so.

As you can imagine this has cost me dearly.

I am now nervous with KK which is hugely pathetic, do i need to make these calls or should i be trying to get to the flop cheaply? Should i just be shoving the initial RR. Should i conceivably think he/she has AA FOLD!

Is this ust a stupid question and just variance messing with me and letting me fall into traps?

I know some are going to say this player dependant however with the strength of the cards this scenario will crop with LAGS and TAGS alike.

Would love any feedback....

Cheers
Kieran

theneons

you said it yourself. variance is just making love to your leg just now.

if your a decent player, esp if your a reg at 200nl, then your edge should tell long term and you can ride this storm out.

harvey23

standard, forgot about the short term, in the long term you will get AA vs there KK just as often, dont even think about it.

poker is all about long term results, forget about the short term

DOHHHHHHH

The KK v AA scenario AIPF is one of the  times where I just accept in my own mind, that Im gonna get stacked. I wil expect to stack my opponent every time I am the right end of this scenario also, so "over time" I will end up level! 

The reason being, I don't trust myself, nor do I believe I am good enough (yet) to get the decision right enough times, and will end up folding the best hand sometimes.

Interesting question though...., how deep (bbs) would I need to be, to consider folding KK pre flop to a 5 bet shove?

eg, 3x, 9x, 27x, all in.....(how many bb's do I need to have behind to fold here) ?

It does really help when your oppoent lets you off thought.... (fetching hand id)...

At the start of the hand here I am nearly 400xbb deep against my oppo who is 250xbb deep

I played my "get out of jail free card" - cud have ended in tears

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
matchydor	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£29.70
HOVE_PARK	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£34.57
	Your hole cards	K K
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£1.20	£1.65	£114.98
xxx	Call		£1.20	£2.85	£75.89
pokerch1p	Fold
matchydor	Fold
HOVE_PARK	Fold
Flop
		8 6 4
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£2.14	£4.99	£112.84
xxx	Call		£2.14	£7.13	£73.75
Turn
		Q
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£5.00	£12.13	£107.84
xxx	Call		£5.00	£17.13	£68.75
River
		5
DOHHHHHHH	Check
xxx	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Show	K K
xxx	Show	A A
xxx	Win	Pair of Aces	£16.28		£85.03

beaneh

My best is KK vs AA 15 times and not winning one so far. start worrying when like me at the moment you lose the AA vs KK too!

Bradnock

I am just a recreational player as such(FISH), i start small and build up and then just seem to have hit another run of situations where my hands become 'unputdownable'. Its just like currently i know when KK comes i am going to be getting it all in and it would be interesting to see anyone who will say different.

5 of the 7 times it has happend i have had my opponent covered, the other two have cost me dearly.

There are only two scenarios i can think of when it may be advisable to put them down and wait for a better hand.
 
1)  Very very very Deep(400bb+) against a super TAG who only RR(3bets) with AA or KK
2) You are playing scared money way out of your limits.

It cant be profitable to lay it down against AIPF can it?
Is there a better way of getting it in other other than hit your 3rd King on the flop? 

In Dan Harringtons Cash game book he interviews Bobby Hoff and he hates this situation with KK says he just lays it down when he knows his player, even if i know my player i think it is hard just to lay it down.

Tough spot and i have got it wrong 7 times in a row (Granted the JJ AIPF was correct call but still lost.)

beaneh

Just dont fold kings pre. 

if you run up a stack, sit out and put the money on different tables so it cant all go in one cooler hand?

Bradnock

You get off lightly Dohx7 but the bored is scary for AA aswell IMO, i would hate that flop with either AA or KK.

Would hate it even more if i was playing a calling station as you wouldbe in trouble with a lot of their range.

Even when i look through my hand histories i think had it got a flop in all cases i would of been getting it in as the boards always came dry.

Beaneh, i seriously hope things dont get that bad for me. I lost AA v KK yesterday also, most times i get AA anywhere from the BTN to the BB the whole table normally folds, Dont know whats worse, picking up just the SB or getting it all in pre and losing to a inferior holding.