In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : so 1 bracelet with a decent field size. 10 others with out? yet we only hear the number 11........ who has done better Hellmuth to win 10 bracelets against tiny fields or demidov who beat ~6k if I remember rightly and then finalled WSOPE through a decent sized field?! Posted by beaneh
HELLMUTH
I thought u were making a serious case until I read this little gem from u previous post
"And when you say amateurs you mean people who make a living playing online poker and play more tournaments in a week than hellmuth has ever played in a year against a higher standard of opponent than hellmuth can even dream of"
now I know ur at the windup, nearly had me there, lol
p.s when u say never done well in a big field, I reckon 45th in a field of over 6000 in 2008 is ok, ish
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : So we should have listened when he told dwan he was rubbish and that HU a pair of tens is a terrible hand? Hellmuth really doesn't have a clue, watch him play against Dwan on PAD or just watch him on ANY CASH GAME SHOW where he cant wait for the blinds to go up so instead just waits gets tilted and blows up. What a skill that is. And when you say amateurs you mean people who make a living playing online poker and play more tournaments in a week than hellmuth has ever played in a year against a higher standard of opponent than hellmuth can even dream of. The stupid thing with Hellmuth is that he acts like such a dousche at the table and yet honestly seems to come off quite well when he is away from the table/game. I've heard him speak with humility and brutal honesty about his game away from his table yet on his table he acts like a prize moron. Considering that it's a media/advertising image he is creating rather than a 'my playstyle at the tables image' it's very annoying. edit also using the bracelet number as a defining factor in skill, should we not use the all time money list? PH Is 10th on it after tonnes of tournies, yet Mr Moneymaker is right up there with Jerry Yang after winning one singular tourny. Posted by beaneh
If you think the art of a good debate is to mock, denegrate, & sprinkle in the odd "lol" to anyone who dares have an opposing view, fine, so be it.
But please don't tell me what I mean to say.
I said......
"...Anyone can criticise anyone. But amateurs with no real track record over two decades (that'll be most of us)...."
And that's exactly what I meant. How many players here on Sky Poker - to whom my comments were addressed - play the game for a living, & have played the game for 2 decades successsfully? (Expressed as a %).
And here's a supplementary for you, which I hope you'll try to answer without mocking.
How many players - again expressed as a % of the entire online poker playing market - make money playing online poker?
I think you may find that "most of us" are amateurs, & most of us have to work for a living. Unlike Mr H. We'd also prefer to be full-time Pros. Like Mr H. So he must be doing something right, even if we don't like him.
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : HELLMUTH I thought u were making a serious case until I read this little gem from u previous post "And when you say amateurs you mean people who make a living playing online poker and play more tournaments in a week than hellmuth has ever played in a year against a higher standard of opponent than hellmuth can even dream of" now I know ur at the windup, nearly had me there, lol p.s when u say never done well in a big field, I reckon 45th in a field of over 6000 in 2008 is ok, ish Always a pleasure Posted by ACA
I was making a point to Tikay, he seemed to think the only person who would ever criticise PH is an amateur, many non amateurs have and will criticise hellmuths game that's unavoidable.
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : I was making a point to Tikay, he seemed to think the only person who would ever criticise PH is an amateur, many non amateurs have and will criticise hellmuths game that's unavoidable. Posted by beaneh
Wrong again, please stop mis-quoting me. I said no such thing.
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : If you think the art of a good debate is to mock, denegrate, & sprinkle in the odd "lol" to anyone who dares have an opposing view, fine, so be it. But please don't tell me what I mean to say. I said...... "...Anyone can criticise anyone. But amateurs with no real track record over two decades (that'll be most of us)...." And that's exactly what I meant. How many players here on Sky Poker - to whom my comments were addressed - play the game for a living, & have played the game for 2 decades successsfully? (Expressed as a %). And here's a supplementary for you, which I hope you'll try to answer without mocking. How many players - again expressed as a % of the entire online poker playing market - make money playing online poker? I think you may find that "most of us" are amateurs, & most of us have to work for a living. Unlike Mr H. We'd also prefer to be full-time Pros. Like Mr H. So he must be doing something right, even if we don't like him. Posted by tikay1
My lol was aimed at the number of runners in the competitions he has won. I fail to see where I have mocked or denegrated you.
only a small % of online players are winners just like only a small % of live players are actually winners. Tho ofc live people wont even find out if they are winners because they will never reach a decent sample size.
Ok here's a question for you.
If PH wasn't sponsored and had to make all his money from just playing poker and buying in with his own money, do you think he'd be much of a winner on the circuit nowadays forgetting that he's won enough to be rolled over the years?
Similarly do you think he could ever have what it takes to win online tournies?!
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : I was making a point to Tikay, he seemed to think the only person who would ever criticise PH is an amateur, many non amateurs have and will criticise hellmuths game that's unavoidable. Posted by beaneh
Hi Beaneh
critics come and go, I'm sure PH cares not a jot, and as a retort 2 the synics, the 11 is wheeled out, Imagine I came onto your table and dissed your strategy and overall play, I'm quite sure you would come back at me, and if you happened to have 11 WSOP bracelets I'm quite sure you may remind me of that.
Lets face he's at the top of the tree (WSOP wise) and with the exception of IVEY who has 8 is very unlikely to be overtaken anytime in the near future.
OK Hellmuth is a bit of a knob but no-one can say he hasn't been succesful at the game! Everyone gets criticised at some point; some rightly some wrongly. hey, it's part of life.
ps. just for a bit of a laugh.Was rereading the Lensman series of books by EE 'Doc' Smith and guess what? One of the major baddies just happens to be called Hellmuth..coincidence or what? OK the book was written in the 70's..maybe the author knew something?
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions....:
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : Hi Beaneh critics come and go, I'm sure PH cares not a jot, and as a retort 2 the synics, the 11 is wheeled out, Imagine I came onto your table and dissed your strategy and overall play, I'm quite sure you would come back at me, and if you happened to have 11 WSOP bracelets I'm quite sure you may remind me of that. Lets face he's at the top of the tree (WSOP wise) and with the exception of IVEY who has 8 is very unlikely to be overtaken anytime in the near future. ACA
Posted by ACA
Ya but do you see that arbitrary scales of money or bracelets may not be the best measure of skill?
Jerry Yang is up there with the all time most skillful due to his 'amount of $ won in tournaments is he'?
OK Hellmuth is a bit of a knob but no-one can say he hasn't been succesful at the game! Everyone gets criticised at some point; some rightly some wrongly. hey, it's part of life. ps. just for a bit of a laugh.Was rereading the Lensman series of books by EE 'Doc' Smith and guess what? One of the major baddies just happens to be called Hellmuth..coincidence or what? OK the book was written in the 70's..maybe the author knew something? Posted by lozgo
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : My lol was aimed at the number of runners in the competitions he has won. I fail to see where I have mocked or denegrated you. only a small % of online players are winners just like only a small % of live players are actually winners. Tho ofc live people wont even find out if they are winners because they will never reach a decent sample size. Ok here's a question for you. If PH wasn't sponsored and had to make all his money from just playing poker and buying in with his own money, do you think he'd be much of a winner on the circuit nowadays forgetting that he's won enough to be rolled over the years? Similarly do you think he could ever have what it takes to win online tournies?! Posted by beaneh
In reply 2 ur questions, imo yes and yes
In the last 6 months alone he has cashed 4 times in the WSOP and made 2 consecutive final tables in the WPT including the WPT World Championship at the Bellagio for a £25k buyin, these 6 cashes alone approx £400K, not bad for a guy with no game, no strategy and who cant live with the new young breed.
When asked who is your favourite player, i tend to answer PH as he was the first player who caught my attention, when i first got into poker in 2007.
He caught my attention due to his record in the WSOP, and also his books (yes, he has "written" books) taught me a style of mtt play which means, if i stick to it, i can't lose money long term. its impossible.
Playing super tight ABC stuff is effective, and i don't care if it isn't fashionable...
He may dress up like a plonker, and create a persona for the media that makes him look like a buffoon, but so what. He is a character, and he brings colour to the game. He may not be the best example of how to behave at the poker table, but he certainly isn't the worst...
Playing no hands early in an mtt, and/or turning up late is fine imo, although i personally prefer to be there from the start to get reads etc. But his record of bracelets, who cares what the field sizes are, cannot be argued with... His record clearly deserves respect, as does his style of play, this does not necessarily have to mean that you have to respect the man himself...
Long live PH imo, i hope he gets another few bracelets, and why not?!!
hello mr dohhh-- love this thread but-- i have been watching and learning from some of you people-- mr richard oreford is my favourite player-- i now understand why he doesn't play omaha anymore though--
a very interesting thread! When asked who is your favourite player, i tend to answer PH as he was the first player who caught my attention, when i first got into poker in 2007. He caught my attention due to his record in the WSOP, and also his books (yes, he has "written" books) taught me a style of mtt play which means, if i stick to it, i can't lose money long term. its impossible. Playing super tight ABC stuff is effective, and i don't care if it isn't fashionable... He may dress up like a plonker, and create a persona for the media that makes him look like a buffoon, but so what. He is a character, and he brings colour to the game. He may not be the best example of how to behave at the poker table, but he certainly isn't the worst... Playing no hands early in an mtt, and/or turning up late is fine imo, although i personally prefer to be there from the start to get reads etc. But his record of bracelets, who cares what the field sizes are, cannot be argued with... His record clearly deserves respect, as does his style of play, this does not necessarily have to mean that you have to respect the man himself... Long live PH imo, i hope he gets another few bracelets, and why not?!! Posted by GREGHOGG
Nice post, Greg. I agree with a lot of your points.
I think it's very important that the game has characters and personalities; players with history and a record of achievement.
However, I have one HUGE issue with Mr Hellmuth.
It's nothing to do with his table antics (mostly staged, poorly, for the ESPN cameras), or his late arrival at the WSOP main event (staged, poorly, for the ESPN cameras).
It's the fact that he's an ambassador for a brand that should have disappeared three years ago; a brand that does nothing but harm poker's reputation; a brand that promotes negative perceptions of the on-line gaming industry.
In Response to Re: Weird things from wsop! & Questions.... : Nice post, Greg. I agree with a lot of your points. I think it's very important that the game has characters and personalities; players with history and a record of achievement. However, I have one HUGE issue with Mr Hellmuth. It's nothing to do with his table antics (mostly staged, poorly, for the ESPN cameras), or his late arrival at the WSOP main event (staged, poorly, for the ESPN cameras). It's the fact that he's an ambassador for a brand that should have disappeared three years ago; a brand that does nothing but harm poker's reputation; a brand that promotes negative perceptions of the on-line gaming industry. That is all. Posted by J-Hartigan
OH WOW YOU ARE MY KING FOR MENTIONING THIS
I SALUTE YOU
he/they are a bunch of scumbags. How he can be a 'reputable and trusted' member of the poker community and then be their front man makes me want to spit on him. If he disowned it and seemed amazed and annoyed i'd be fine with him, he'd have gone up in my estimations as is what a disgrace.
Comments
HELLMUTH
I thought u were making a serious case until I read this little gem from u previous post
"And when you say amateurs you mean people who make a living playing online poker and play more tournaments in a week than hellmuth has ever played in a year against a higher standard of opponent than hellmuth can even dream of"
now I know ur at the windup, nearly had me there, lol
p.s when u say never done well in a big field, I reckon 45th in a field of over 6000 in 2008 is ok, ish
Always a pleasure
But please don't tell me what I mean to say.
I said......
"...Anyone can criticise anyone. But amateurs with no real track record over two decades (that'll be most of us)...."
And that's exactly what I meant. How many players here on Sky Poker - to whom my comments were addressed - play the game for a living, & have played the game for 2 decades successsfully? (Expressed as a %).
And here's a supplementary for you, which I hope you'll try to answer without mocking.
How many players - again expressed as a % of the entire online poker playing market - make money playing online poker?
I think you may find that "most of us" are amateurs, & most of us have to work for a living. Unlike Mr H. We'd also prefer to be full-time Pros. Like Mr H. So he must be doing something right, even if we don't like him.
critics come and go, I'm sure PH cares not a jot, and as a retort 2 the synics, the 11 is wheeled out, Imagine I came onto your table and dissed your strategy and overall play, I'm quite sure you would come back at me, and if you happened to have 11 WSOP bracelets I'm quite sure you may remind me of that.
Lets face he's at the top of the tree (WSOP wise) and with the exception of IVEY who has 8 is very unlikely to be overtaken anytime in the near future.
ACA
ps. just for a bit of a laugh.Was rereading the Lensman series of books by EE 'Doc' Smith and guess what? One of the major baddies just happens to be called Hellmuth..coincidence or what? OK the book was written in the 70's..maybe the author knew something?
In reply 2 ur questions, imo yes and yes
In the last 6 months alone he has cashed 4 times in the WSOP and made 2 consecutive final tables in the WPT including the WPT World Championship at the Bellagio for a £25k buyin, these 6 cashes alone approx £400K, not bad for a guy with no game, no strategy and who cant live with the new young breed.
When asked who is your favourite player, i tend to answer PH as he was the first player who caught my attention, when i first got into poker in 2007.
He caught my attention due to his record in the WSOP, and also his books (yes, he has "written" books) taught me a style of mtt play which means, if i stick to it, i can't lose money long term. its impossible.
Playing super tight ABC stuff is effective, and i don't care if it isn't fashionable...
He may dress up like a plonker, and create a persona for the media that makes him look like a buffoon, but so what. He is a character, and he brings colour to the game. He may not be the best example of how to behave at the poker table, but he certainly isn't the worst...
Playing no hands early in an mtt, and/or turning up late is fine imo, although i personally prefer to be there from the start to get reads etc. But his record of bracelets, who cares what the field sizes are, cannot be argued with... His record clearly deserves respect, as does his style of play, this does not necessarily have to mean that you have to respect the man himself...
Long live PH imo, i hope he gets another few bracelets, and why not?!!
thats probably why you see luke full flush on tv alot as he talks such a great game....
maybe both are not the greatest players in the world but are fun to watch on tv...
love this thread but--
i have been watching and learning from some of you people--
mr richard oreford is my favourite player--
i now understand why he doesn't play omaha anymore though--
play the oreford way-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKIrKZLXLg
ps. PH is a legend--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkEjuZg3Bd0&NR=1