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sensational call or terrible call?

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited August 2010 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
The_Don90 Small blind  10.00 10.00 5090.00
 Big blind  20.00 30.00 4940.00
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • 10
     
 Fold     
 Fold     
 Fold     
Raise  40.00 70.00 4950.00
The_Don90 Raise  90.00 160.00 5000.00
 Fold     
 Raise  120.00 280.00 4830.00
The_Don90 Call  60.00 340.00 4940.00
Flop
   
  • 2
  • Q
  • 6
     
The_Don90 Check     
 Bet  340.00 680.00 4490.00
The_Don90 Call  340.00 1020.00 4600.00
Turn
   
  • 4
     
The_Don90 Check     
 Check     
River
   
  • 3
     
The_Don90 Bet  765.00 1785.00 3835.00
 All-in  4490.00 6275.00 0.00
The_Don90 Call  3725.00 10000.00 110.00
The_Don90 Show
  • 10
  • 10
   
 Show
  • A
  • A
   
The_Don90 Win Flush to the Queen 10000.00  10110.00
Ok this was third hand of the 9.15 deepie. No reads or notes, but it didnt feel like he had a heart.

Opinions please.
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Comments

  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    preflop is disastrous.


    going with your reads on river is fine, but the rest of the hand is quite disgraceful!


    dont 3 bet pre, if you do dont make it that size.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    preflop is disastrous. going with your reads on river is fine, but the rest of the hand is quite disgraceful! dont 3 bet pre, if you do dont make it that size.
    Posted by beaneh
    thanks Beaneh

    May i ask how would you play this hand differenty.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : thanks Beaneh May i ask how would you play this hand differenty.
    Posted by The_Don90



    I wouldn't reraise preflop, ESPECIALLY not in a deepstack.

    over cards are poo and make it really hard to get tonnes of money in good and they will come all the time for your ickle tens.

    put it this way if i 3bet call pre and c/c the flop i'm not bet calling the river! 
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to  Re: sensational call or terrible call? : I wouldn't reraise preflop, ESPECIALLY not in a deepstack. over cards are poo and make it really hard to get tonnes of money in good and they will come all the time for your ickle tens. put it this way if i 3bet call pre and c/c the flop i'm not bet calling the river! 
    Posted by beaneh
    Thanks for the feedback m8. i did feel it was a bad call for all i won the hand.
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2010
    Why did you check the turn with the flush? Im not very good at these MTT as I seem to be to agressive is the reason for my question.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    Why did you check the turn with the flush? Im not very good at these MTT as I seem to be to agressive is the reason for my question.
    Posted by waynecure

    The nature of MTT freeze outs being that you only have one life, they require different lines compared to best play in a cash game, controlling the pot size is important. Aggression is good, but in general aggression down the streets in tournaments require much stronger hands compared to how much early street aggression does.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    Why did you check the turn with the flush? Im not very good at these MTT as I seem to be to agressive is the reason for my question.
    Posted by waynecure
    i knew my opponent had aa kk qq or jj but did he have a heart. if i check he bets he likley does i can lay down. if he checks i can go to value town with a disguised hand on the river
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2010

    Fantastic use of adjectives 
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : The nature of MTT freeze outs being that you only have one life, they require different lines compared to best play in a cash game, controlling the pot size is important. Aggression is good, but in general aggression down the streets in tournaments require much stronger hands compared to how much early street aggression does.
    Posted by beaneh
    Ok understand that but I have the ten high flush, I am either a mile behind to JQKA Hearts or a mile infront.
     
    I still dont get the check on the turn? If im ahead im building the pot if I am behind there is a good change he will let me know so I can make my decision now rather than facing a larger bet on the river. My thinking might be flawed be just grits my poo to check a flush in this spot.?
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2010
     Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : i knew my opponent had aa kk qq or jj but did he have a heart. if i check he bets he likley does i can lay down. if he checks i can go to value town with a disguised hand on the river
    Posted by The_Don90
    My same response as above to beaneh
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : Ok understand that but I have the ten high flush, I am either a mile behind to JQKA Hearts or a mile infront.   I still dont get the check on the turn? If im ahead im building the pot if I am behind there is a good change he will let me know so I can make my decision now rather than facing a larger bet on the river. My thinking might be flawed be just grits my poo to check a flush in this spot.?
    Posted by waynecure




    If he has the bigger flush he isn't folding and we're betting, if we're betting and he's not got it he probably isn't calling. Our hand is essentially invulnerable except for a board pair up so seeing the river for free is fine. Also your oppo might undervalue the J of hearts or overvalue a lower heart on the river.
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to  Re: sensational call or terrible call? : If he has the bigger flush he isn't folding and we're betting, if we're betting and he's not got it he probably isn't calling. Our hand is essentially invulnerable except for a board pair up so seeing the river for free is fine. Also your oppo might undervalue the J of hearts or overvalue a lower heart on the river.
    Posted by beaneh
    Your still missing my point, if the AA had shoved the river could we call, we have no information because we checked the flop. If we bet the flop the and villian has no hearts in his hand is less likey to shove and want want to control the pot call/check the hand down because the flush worries him the same as us. Sorry beaneh but the check still confuses me so maybe best I stick to cash and sit & go 6 handed. lol!
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : Your still missing my point, if the AA had shoved the river could we call, we have no information because we checked the flop. 
    Posted by waynecure



    No I probably wouldn't call a shove, however don managed to bet call so who knows lol. Checking the flop is fine the main mistake is preflop.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to  Re: sensational call or terrible call? : No I probably wouldn't call a shove, however don managed to bet call so who knows lol. Checking the flop is fine the main mistake is preflop.
    Posted by beaneh
    i decided if he checked turn he was either dead or had the nuts, the river added to that impressionand i thought for a second, and took a gamble going with my gut
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : i decided if he checked turn he was either dead or had the nuts, the river added to that impressionand i thought for a second, and took a gamble going with my gut
    Posted by The_Don90
    This is my point Don about this check on the turn you were still no nearer knowing where you was.

    Im most likely missing something as beaneh and you think it correct, so excuse my ignorance for not getting my head round it.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : This is my point Don about this check on the turn you were still no nearer knowing where you was. Im most likely missing something as beaneh and you think it correct, so excuse my ignorance for not getting my head round it.
    Posted by waynecure

    it's a case of us betting folds out worse hands and better hands call + the fact that if we check we can induce bluffs and incorrect value bets. 


    there is more 'value' to our play because there are more options where money is going in when we are ahead and less money when we are behind.

    makes sense?
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call? : This is my point Don about this check on the turn you were still no nearer knowing where you was. Im most likely missing something as beaneh and you think it correct, so excuse my ignorance for not getting my head round it.
    Posted by waynecure
    I agree in a sense wayne. in honesty when i called pre i was set mining, the flop i thought a heart might also be good. Turn i got it and wasnt sure, a J or K likley bets, and A might do but not always.

    So when he checks behind i decided he either has the A, maybe a set of Queens or just an overpair. I bet he shoves, this seems like a bluff he doesnt value town it. As a result in my head i rule out the A, and my gut told me to call.

    Ok i base too much of my game on my gut feeling, hense why i suck lol, but sometimes it works.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited August 2010
    he either has nothing, or the nuts. so if we bet he will fold his nothing and call/raise with nuts. (unless he does smth. stupid as in original post).

    that is why betting the turn is bad.

    bet/calling is pretty big spew imo
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2010
    OK guys going to accept the argument and take this on board can only improve my MTT game which needs some work for sure.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2010
    In Response to Re: sensational call or terrible call?:
    OK guys going to accept the argument and take this on board can only improve my MTT game which needs some work for sure.
    Posted by waynecure

    it is not specifically related to just MTT's though it applies to all pokers.
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