Yes I can see the point of view made by Red King. But anyone who is in Primo and really needing to cash is obviously playing above their bankroll.
When I first started playing I probably had the same mindset. If I had a good run playing sit and goes and small tournies I would treat myself to an entry into a big one, or try to satellite in. And I would be over the moon with any cash.
And there is certainly nothing wrong with that. But I still believe that changing my strategy to playing for the win was vital in starting me off to being able to make a profit from the game.
All you guys posting on here that they are playing to just cash are the people I will be looking for at bubble time, if I havent already crashed !
Yes I can see the point of view made by Red King. But anyone who is in Primo and really needing to cash is obviously playing above their bankroll. When I first started playing I probably had the same mindset. If I had a good run playing sit and goes and small tournies I would treat myself to an entry into a big one, or try to satellite in. And I would be over the moon with any cash. And there is certainly nothing wrong with that. But I still believe that changing my strategy to playing for the win was vital in starting me off to being able to make a profit from the game. All you guys posting on here that they are playing to just cash are the people I will be looking for at bubble time, if I havent already crashed ! Good luck all Posted by penguin7
I fully agree with this, although im one of these people who will try and satellite in the satellite will be well within my BR. I treat it if i get in as ive won the buy in and losing doesnt matter but winning is key. OK i have a very poor sucsess rate of satellites, but then thats part of poker. I just cant grasp the set up of them and the looser opponents.
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : Right now here is something i will maybe state. I agree if you satellite in then min cash in a big tournament is a very good ROI. So these are the people i like to pick on on the cash bubble. Ok so shortys shove with any rag ace. OK so you fold KK. Ok. Now, onw thing here ive learnt from non-tournament play but can be adopted in tournament bubble sitations, now i dont know you posistion here im guessing UTG. Ok to we're UTG with KK, say we open shove, (DYM style) do these shorties then risk their lives on A9 or less. I dont think so. OK so if they do and an Ace comes out then oh well we got our money in as good favorite and we can still double up again to cash and even go onto win. If no one calls we pick up the blinds happy days. I fail to see the logic of folding KK OOP on the bubble of a big tournament unless we are say BB and theres and all in and at least 1 caller before us. Posted by The_Don90
I don't see your logic Don90, I've got 3x chips of shorties, if they shove with A? and hit, they double-up, level with me. I'm back in trouble. Best to pass and wait for the bubble, then you can loosen up. BTW if I'm short, I shove with any A? at bubble.
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : Surely this is Beanh's point, so I'm not sure how you disagree with him. Posted by elsadog
When i play a MTT, i make sure i have a couple of other tables running, whether its a couple of STTs or cash, not too bothered. its not as if i personally chain all my hopes that night solely on cashing in a 200 runner tourney. it depends on what you want out of a tourney. if you do, then i see everyones point in thinking the goal is to win it all.
my goals re: MTT's are tiered:
goal 1 - cash.
goal 2 - final table
goal 3 - win.
what i should have said elsa is it must be even more frustrating spending 3hrs 59mins to finish on the bubble trying to go for glory.
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : When i play a MTT, i make sure i have a couple of other tables running, whether its a couple of STTs or cash, not too bothered. its not as if i personally chain all my hopes that night solely on cashing in a 200 runner tourney. it depends on what you want out of a tourney. if you do, then i see everyones point in thinking the goal is to win it all. my goals re: MTT's are tiered: goal 1 - cash. goal 2 - final table goal 3 - win. what i should have said elsa is it must be even more frustrating spending 3hrs 59mins to finish on the bubble trying to go for glory. Posted by theneons
Breaking news, tonights Primo sat, 42 runners, 8 qualify, final 9, three shorties including me, I'm in BB with AQ (5300 chips), blinds are 600/1200, UTG (shortie 5800 chips) min raises, all fold back to me, hmmmm, min raise UTG smells of mid pair, correct JJ, I shove all-in, flop comes 3 A Q, wooohooo two pair, turn is J for set, good night, river is blank. Should have just called to see flop, then shoved when I hit, but UTG may have hero called.
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : I don't see your logic Don90, I've got 3x chips of shorties, if they shove with A? and hit, they double-up, level with me. I'm back in trouble. Best to pass and wait for the bubble, then you can loosen up. BTW if I'm short, I shove with any A? at bubble. Posted by Red_King
Loosen up???????????
Only one hand at this point can beat me. Im never folding unless i have an idea that one of these players has AA.
Your effecitley saying that after the river i have a mugs end straight flush to Q but ill fold it anyways incase my opponent has AK of the same suit to be tyhe only had that can beat me.
This is clear to me that you are playing with scared money. I agree if your short shove with any ace. If im short and i think i can get a shove through ill shovew with any two. I lost a deepie the other day, i shoved with 62os on the bubble because i thought i could get it through. I didnt and i lost. I moved on, but if i got it through i had a whole circle to find a spot to double up my stack with 1.5BB extra.
Breaking news, tonights Primo sat, 42 runners, 8 qualify, final 9, three shorties including me, I'm in BB with AQ (5300 chips), blinds are 600/1200, UTG (shortie 5800 chips) min raises, all fold back to me, hmmmm, min raise UTG smells of mid pair, correct JJ, I shove all-in, flop comes 3 A Q, wooohooo two pair, turn is J for set, good night, river is blank. Should have just called to see flop, then shoved when I hit, but UTG may have hero called. Totally agree with theneons Posted by Red_King
This is completely different to you KK situation. Your in a satellite here, winning doesnt mean anything, so folding is simple. Now i disagree with your opponents call as clearly at best hes racing but still these calls can be made.
Secondly it is different because Any pair and AK is beating me, im starting with 15th best hand. So your telling me youll fold KK but shove with AQ. Hmmm a little odd dont we think.
Evening all! Glad to see there is some healthy debate already at hand!
Actually I'm really interested in what you all have to say in this. Especially as a player who uses only the most rudimentary 'committed to memory' Poker Maths (out of purely personal mathematical ability..or a lack thereof. not out of choice!).
Hoggers I hear you will be too busy getting steadily pickled this evening?! I wish you luck in your endeavors and hope to see you on a table later
All sorts for you this evening.. Phone calls, Poker clinic, hand requests etc etc and of course PRIMO!!
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : This is completely different to you KK situation. Your in a satellite here, winning doesnt mean anything, so folding is simple. Now i disagree with your opponents call as clearly at best hes racing but still these calls can be made. Secondly it is different because Any pair and AK is beating me, im starting with 15th best hand. So your telling me youll fold KK but shove with AQ. Hmmm a little odd dont we think. Posted by The_Don90
My objective was my first ever cash in the Primo, therefore I made a decision that any other time I'd be all-in faster than the software would let me. I had previously gone out just before the bubble. 3hrs play for no return?
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : My objective was my first ever cash in the Primo, therefore I made a decision that any other time I'd be all-in faster than the software would let me. I had previously gone out just before the bubble. 3hrs play for no return? Posted by Red_King
what if u play a cash table for 2 hrs then get stacked, 2 hours 4 no return
Evening all! Glad to see there is some healthy debate already at hand! Actually I'm really interested in what you all have to say in this. Especially as a player who uses only the most rudimentary 'committed to memory' Poker Maths (out of purely personal mathematical ability..or a lack thereof. not out of choice!). Hoggers I hear you will be too busy getting steadily pickled this evening?! I wish you luck in your endeavors and hope to see you on a table later All sorts for you this evening.. Phone calls, Poker clinic, hand requests etc etc and of course PRIMO!! Keep your thoughts coming in! GOOD LUCK!! Posted by LML
Hi LML,
If i did chat to you on the show i would just waffle in a drunken manner and no-one likes that from a phone-in guest, do they Bandini?:)
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : what if u play a cash table for 2 hrs then get stacked, 2 hours 4 no return so going by ur logic u fold AA aswell? Posted by SHANXTA
What if your bed has been pashed in the morning. Do you blame the blanket?
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : My objective was my first ever cash in the Primo, therefore I made a decision that any other time I'd be all-in faster than the software would let me. I had previously gone out just before the bubble. 3hrs play for no return? Posted by Red_King
3 hours play for no return is part of life, every risk comes with a reward.
Now im not sure why you would even considered folding KK ever preflop without suspecting AA is in the hand
In Response to Re: PRIMO 29/08/2010 - OFFICIAL SHOW THREAD : My objective was my first ever cash in the Primo, therefore I made a decision that any other time I'd be all-in faster than the software would let me. I had previously gone out just before the bubble. 3hrs play for no return? Posted by Red_King
I crashed out of a tournament, 3 before the bubble, last night and it had a $100k pool. My KK hit a set of 9's for a huge pot, but that is tournament poker.
If you play tournaments you have to give yourself the chance of winning big. If you can't do that, then play stts. There is a difference in being passive and turning down genuine opportunities.
Comments
When I first started playing I probably had the same mindset. If I had a good run playing sit and goes and small tournies I would treat myself to an entry into a big one, or try to satellite in. And I would be over the moon with any cash.
And there is certainly nothing wrong with that. But I still believe that changing my strategy to playing for the win was vital in starting me off to being able to make a profit from the game.
All you guys posting on here that they are playing to just cash are the people I will be looking for at bubble time, if I havent already crashed !
Good luck all
lml / james
interesting question most good players look for the lower stacks near the bubble
i bealive every player starts a tournament thinking they can win it as anybody can get lucky against any better player
i also bealive it depends on the tourny as bounty hunters tend to be a lot loser play all the way through
as for folding a preuim hand just to cash me personally i wouldnt id rather go in and have a chance of the double up for the higher cash
if i lose i move on
the primo is the one i havernt won yet so good luck me tonite
allways enjoy primo and the show
I fully agree with this, although im one of these people who will try and satellite in the satellite will be well within my BR. I treat it if i get in as ive won the buy in and losing doesnt matter but winning is key. OK i have a very poor sucsess rate of satellites, but then thats part of poker. I just cant grasp the set up of them and the looser opponents.
I've got 3x chips of shorties, if they shove with A? and hit, they double-up, level with me. I'm back in trouble.
Best to pass and wait for the bubble, then you can loosen up. BTW if I'm short, I shove with any A? at bubble.
42 runners, 8 qualify, final 9, three shorties including me,
I'm in BB with AQ (5300 chips), blinds are 600/1200, UTG (shortie 5800 chips) min raises,
all fold back to me, hmmmm, min raise UTG smells of mid pair, correct JJ, I shove all-in,
flop comes 3 A Q, wooohooo two pair, turn is J for set, good night, river is blank.
Should have just called to see flop, then shoved when I hit, but UTG may have hero called.
Totally agree with theneons
Only one hand at this point can beat me. Im never folding unless i have an idea that one of these players has AA.
Your effecitley saying that after the river i have a mugs end straight flush to Q but ill fold it anyways incase my opponent has AK of the same suit to be tyhe only had that can beat me.
This is clear to me that you are playing with scared money. I agree if your short shove with any ace. If im short and i think i can get a shove through ill shovew with any two. I lost a deepie the other day, i shoved with 62os on the bubble because i thought i could get it through. I didnt and i lost. I moved on, but if i got it through i had a whole circle to find a spot to double up my stack with 1.5BB extra.
Secondly it is different because Any pair and AK is beating me, im starting with 15th best hand. So your telling me youll fold KK but shove with AQ. Hmmm a little odd dont we think.
Actually I'm really interested in what you all have to say in this. Especially as a player who uses only the most rudimentary 'committed to memory' Poker Maths (out of purely personal mathematical ability..or a lack thereof. not out of choice!).
Hoggers I hear you will be too busy getting steadily pickled this evening?! I wish you luck in your endeavors and hope to see you on a table later
All sorts for you this evening.. Phone calls, Poker clinic, hand requests etc etc and of course PRIMO!!
Keep your thoughts coming in!
GOOD LUCK!!
Hi LML,
If i did chat to you on the show i would just waffle in a drunken manner and no-one likes that from a phone-in guest, do they Bandini?:)
I can't do it tonight, i'm sorry, innit.
Now im not sure why you would even considered folding KK ever preflop without suspecting AA is in the hand
If you play tournaments you have to give yourself the chance of winning big. If you can't do that, then play stts. There is a difference in being passive and turning down genuine opportunities.