poker and gambling - meant for ask TK

tiercel

Saw repeat of Mastercash last night where you responded to a topic I opened up last week - namely Is poker gambling ? You came out on the side of yes  it is and cited the legal cases. But the arguement and law ( which often gets it wrong ) is all based on cash play. Answer me one question TK . You are in a tournament and you have cashed . You cannot lose anything but you carry on playing to try to win the tourney and increase your winnings . You cannot lose what you have won and if there is no possibility of loss there is no gamble - but you are still playing poker. Ergo Poker is not gambling but a game that is used as a gambing medium.

Tikay10

In Response to poker gambling:

Saw repeat of Mastercash last night where you responded to a topic I opened up last week - namely Is poker gambling ? You came out on the side of yes  it is and cited the legal cases. But the arguement and law ( which often gets it wrong ) is all based on cash play. Answer me one question TK . You are in a tournament and you have cashed . You cannot lose anything but you carry on playing to try to win the tourney and increase your winnings . You cannot lose what you have won and if there is no possibility of loss there is no gamble - but you are still playing poker. Ergo Poker is not gambling but a game that is used as a gambing medium.
Posted by tiercel

Sorry Mr Tier, but that argument is seriously flawed. I have given evidence in two Court Cases on the "luck v gambling" issue, & in neither of them was the debate restricted to cash games.

The degree of luck in poker is open to debate, most reckon it to be between 60% & 80%, but whatever, we all know it includes a substantial luck quotient.

Personally, I'm not at all fussed whether it's deemed gambling or not, it matters not to me, but it's not possible to argue that luck does not play a part in poker. It does. So it must be deemed as gambling.

If you get all your money in pre-flop with two red aces, & your oppo calls with two black aces, & the board comes five spades - was that unskilful play, or (bad) luck? And there's never been a Tourney winner who has not got all his money in with A-K v Q-Q, or vice-versa. Again, relying on luck to hit or hold. We also hit sets or bust overpairs, having got our money in bad. Is that skill, or luck?

ckd

 that fact you have won money means nothing..... at the start of the tourny you was gambling to with money to win more money ..... even if you cash and carry on you are still gambling with your 1st stake to win more so yes its gambling theres no way round it playing poker for any stake is gambling regaurdless if you already made your money back

Tikay10

ckd gets it right.

ckd

 it would not be classed as gambling if it wasnt  , plus gaming commissions are alot more on it than us so if they have deemed it as gambling then it is

dav1964

Yes of course its gambling BUT i cannot think of a better way to gamble ;o)

PS if anyone wants the correct reult in englands next group game then look no further than dav1964 as i got
4-0 vs bulgaria correct at 12/1 and last nite i got the 3-1 away win in swissland at 16/1, dav

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

Yes of course its gambling BUT i cannot think of a better way to gamble ;o) PS if anyone wants the correct reult in englands next group game then look no further than dav1964 as i got 4-0 vs bulgaria correct at 12/1 and last nite i got the 3-1 away win in swissland at 16/1, dav
Posted by dav1964

SHOW OFF!!!!

dav1964

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK : SHOW OFF!!!!
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

WHO ME??? ;O)))

waynec

It must be a game of skill, we have pro poker players. I agree there is a good percentage of luck in the game hence outdraws badbeats ect, however these Pros high skill factor over rides the outdraws which is why over the year they make money. The less skilful players lose over the year because they gamble more than the Pro which then makes it a game of luck.

We could say Doyle Brunson was lucky to win all those WSOP titles, millions of $ in cash game over the years but we all know he is one of the best players ever due to SKILL

I rest my case!

ckd

 alot of skill is involed but alot of gambling is as well 

 to me any game sport or anything else that you put money on in order to win more is gambling 

PKRPar

Of course Poker is a form of gambling. No matter what game your playing. Gambling doesn't have to be for money (although normally is) so using your example if you've already cashed in a tournament, your going to bet (gamble) 500 chips that you have a better hand than your opponent when you don't know what he/she has... thats called gambling. Your gambling chips!!!

Here's the official definition of gambling too:

Definitions of gambling on the Web:

• the act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize); 
• Gambling is the of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.
• An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance

There's nothing else to add. Thread can be closed

Tikay10

Yes, skill is involved, but luck is involved, too.

To test this theory, ask yourself this.

1) Who is the best Tourney player in the world?

2) If he or she entered Sunday's Primo, what chance would he/she have of winning it? The answer is "a better chance than you & me, he/she has an edge of a few %, but that's all". He/she would probably win it 1 time in 200 or 300 hundred, despite the fact that he (or she) is clearly better than everyone else in the field.

And that is EXACTLY why we can all win Poker Tourneys - the luck quotient evens up the skill edge that some players enjoy.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

Of course Poker is a form of gambling. No matter what game your playing. Gambling doesn't have to be for money (although normally is) so using your example if you've already cashed in a tournament, your going to bet (gamble) 500 chips that you have a better hand than your opponent when you don't know what he/she has... thats called gambling. Your gambling chips!!! Here's the official definition of gambling too: Definitions of gambling on the Web: the act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize);  G ambling is the of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period. An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance There's nothing else to add. Thread can be closed
Posted by PKRPar

+1

tiggerovnh

Tiercel, Like you say if your in a toruny and cashed and are carrying on to get more winnings, you have to pay in the tourny which imo is still gambling anyone who doesnt see poker as gambling is pretty stupid, but thats just my opinion.

ckd

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

Yes, skill is involved, but luck is involved, too. To test this theory, ask yourself this. 1) Who is the best Tourney player in the world? 2) If he or she entered Sunday's Primo, what chance would he/she have of winning it? The answer is " a better chance than you & me, he/she has an edge of a few %, but that's all ". He/she would probably win it 1 time in 200 or 300 hundred, despite the fact that he (or she) is clearly better than everyone else in the field. And that is EXACTLY why we can all win Poker Tourneys - the luck quotient evens up the skill edge that some players enjoy.
Posted by Tikay10

to answer your question

 rich orford is the best tourny cash stt player in the world and i think he would win it yes

ckd

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK : to answer your question  rich orford is the best tourny cash stt player in the world and i think he would win it yes
Posted by ckd

sorry just had a bang to the head

ajs4385

poker is gambling and dont tell anyone any different especially the nice people at hmrc.

BrownnDog

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

poker is gambling and dont tell anyone any different especially the nice people at hmrc.
Posted by ajs4385

ROFL

beaneh

Poker isn't gambling. it should be taxed.

now wheres my lifelong reeeeeebate!!!?

ckd

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

Poker isn't gambling. it should be taxed. now wheres my lifelong reeeeeebate!!!?
Posted by beaneh

we regreat to inform you that you have not given us any info that we asked 4 and the amout you have paid in taxs is lower than it should be

 YOU OW US £7.777.777

 PLEASE PAY WITHIN 28 DAYS

 YOUR VERY BEST PAL

 THE TAXMAN

loonytoons

In Response to Re: poker and gambling - meant for ask TK:

It must be a game of skill, we have pro poker players. I agree there is a good percentage of luck in the game hence outdraws badbeats ect, however these Pros high skill factor over rides the outdraws which is why over the year they make money. The less skilful players lose over the year because they gamble more than the Pro which then makes it a game of luck. We could say Doyle Brunson was lucky to win all those WSOP titles, millions of $ in cash game over the years but we all know he is one of the best players ever due to SKILL I rest my case!
Posted by waynecure

Would you say horse racing is gambling or skill? We have professional horse layers/tipsters, who make money using 'skill' to wager on horse race outcomes, and less skillful layers who lose over the year, would we say that jp macmanus who makes a fortune in horse race betting  is skillful or lucky? So if you think poker is skillful, its no more skillful than horse betting, which i think is gambling - i rest my case!