this is hard one fold or call the river bet

rob12345

suesex	Small blind		75.00	75.00	3043.75
rob12345	Big blind		150.00	225.00	4117.50
	Your hole cards	A J
Jazzydog	Raise		450.00	675.00	2900.00
Tube1986	Fold
Tevos	Fold
suesex	Fold
rob12345	Call		300.00	975.00	3817.50
Flop
		10 2 K
rob12345	Check
Jazzydog	Check
Turn
		8
rob12345	Bet		487.50	1462.50	3330.00
Jazzydog	Call		487.50	1950.00	2412.50
River
		9
rob12345	Check
Jazzydog	All-in		2412.50	4362.50	0.00
rob12345	Fold
Jazzydog	Muck
Jazzydog	Win		1950.00		1950.00
Jazzydog	Return		2412.50	0.00	4362.50

YOUNG_GUN

Any reads at all?
why have you just called OOP? no re-raise to narrow his range
has he been min raising often? if so what sort of hands would you think he is doing this with? AA-JJ or small pp or AK,AQ etc
does he use his position often to bet people of the hand?

rob12345

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

Any reads at all? why have you just called OOP? no re-raise to narrow his range has he been min raising often? if so what sort of hands would you think he is doing this with? AA-JJ or small pp or AK,AQ etc does he use his position often to bet people of the hand?
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

no reads just come on the table
i just called becouse i did not want to play a big pot wif a hand like aj and if i get re raise i hate my hand
never seen him play a hand

YOUNG_GUN

no reads dont like the call tbh mate, personally would raise it up 900 and re-assess

As played suppose you gotta fold river bet as beaten by 2 higher cards, thats the problem at no point did you bet so you can narrow down his range. if hes a new player to the table pre more likely he is going to shove or fold to your raise so could lose 900 if he does and gut says he's not bluffing or you will get him to fold most the time definately how you want to play it in future

LOL_RAISE

i think we are only losing if he flopped the nut flush.

YOUNG_GUN

Queen of hearts Mr raise ;o)

rob12345

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

no reads dont like the call tbh mate, personally would raise it up 900 and re-assess As played suppose you gotta fold river bet as beaten by 2 higher cards, thats the problem at no point did you bet so you can narrow down his range. if hes a new player to the table pre more likely he is going to shove or fold to your raise so could lose 900 if he does and gut says he's not bluffing or you will get him to fold most the time definately how you want to play it in future
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

he did raise from under the gun so most of the time means a strounger hand

YOUNG_GUN

min raise could easily be small pp - very strong pair who knows but your not going to narrow it if you dont re-raise

beaneh

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

i think we are only losing if he flopped the nut flush.
Posted by LOL_RAISE

I call too. this man has nailed it. make him show his flopped nuts.

rob12345

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

min raise could easily be small pp - very strong pair who knows but your not going to narrow it if you dont re-raise
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

 
yeh probale should re raise most times i do but just had feeling that i be wasting my chips

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

Queen of hearts Mr raise ;o)
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

what i mean is if he has the bare Ah then he is betting the flop . the only way he does have the Ah is if he flopped the nut flush and slowplayed it.
Qh shouldnt be overbetting the pot because its really hard for us to call with worse.
id expect him to turn smaller flushes into bluffs here & random pairs into bluffs

beaneh

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet : what i mean is if he has the bare Ah then he is betting the flop . the only way he does have the Ah is if he flopped the nut flush and slowplayed it. Qh shouldnt be overbetting the pot because its really hard for us to call with worse. id expect him to turn smaller flushes into bluffs here & random pairs into bluffs
Posted by LOL_RAISE

no lol

floppy1981

I think i almost always call in this situation and if they have Ah or Qh then fair play to them also i prob dont check it unless i want to trap and hope they go all in

DeucesLive

if they have a smaller flush, they're unlikely to do anything since they have showdown value. Qh MAYBE but even so- I think there's enough there that they don't need to risk anything.

So it's a case of whether it's a stone cold bluff, reading your weakness, or overbetting the nut hand. Personally, I think I'd have to call that, and make a note based on the result. 3rd nut hand based on how that board played is too good to pass up.

Another possibility is it's a weak player who acts as a calling station, and had AQ 1 heart or something similar, and didn't want to bet until they made their hand, but were unwilling to leave the hand until the river. Tough spot.

rob12345

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet:

In Response to Re: this is hard one fold or call the river bet : I call too. this man has nailed it. make him show his flopped nuts.
Posted by beaneh

y dose he have had to floped the flush he could have just had the Ah he dose not have to flop ot to have me beat

beaneh

he'd most likely bet the Ah on the flop.