3 problem hands last night in fun game

YOUNG_GUN

ok could you have got away from 2 of them? obviously hand 2 i wasnt ballsy enough, ended up down £22 overall which isnt too bad considering phil & tommy @ the table no disrespect to the others. also any of those playing can you give me any advice on my game? either pm or on here please just trying to stick to cash for a little while while i got a bit in here

hand1)

TommyD	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£19.99
phil12uk	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£19.85
	Your hole cards	9 9
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£19.61
LML	Raise		£1.60	£2.15	£18.25
TommyD	Fold
phil12uk	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Call		£1.20	£3.35	£18.41
Flop
		7 4 4
YOUNG_GUN	Check
LML	Bet		£3.35	£6.70	£14.90
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		£7.70	£14.40	£10.71
LML	All-in		£14.90	£29.30	£0.00
YOUNG_GUN	Fold
LML	Show	6 6
LML	Win		£17.35		£17.35
LML	Return		£10.55	£1.40	£27.90

8     £33.39

YOUNG_GUN

LML	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£18.60
TommyD	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£25.27
	Your hole cards	2 2
phil12uk	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£34.87
donkeyplop	Fold
LML	Call		£0.35	£0.90	£18.25
TommyD	Raise		£1.50	£2.40	£23.77
YOUNG_GUN	Call		£1.20	£3.60	£33.67
LML	Fold
Flop
		4 Q 10
TommyD	Bet		£2.90	£6.50	£20.87
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		£7.40	£13.90	£26.27
TommyD	All-in		£20.87	£34.77	£0.00
YOUNG_GUN	Fold
TommyD	Show	A K
TommyD	Win		£17.02		£17.02
TommyD	Return		£16.37	£1.38	£33.39

YOUNG_GUN

donkeyplop	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£39.47
LML	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£20.63
	Your hole cards	Q Q
TommyD	Fold
X3r000	Fold
phil12uk	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£21.40
donkeyplop	Fold
LML	Raise		£1.20	£1.75	£19.43
YOUNG_GUN	Raise		£2.70	£4.45	£18.70
LML	Raise		£5.40	£9.85	£14.03
YOUNG_GUN	All-in		£18.70	£28.55	£0.00
LML	All-in		£14.03	£42.58	£0.00
YOUNG_GUN	Unmatched bet		£1.07	£41.51	£1.07
LML	Show	K K
YOUNG_GUN	Show	Q Q
Flop
		9 9 7
Turn
		2
River
		8
LML	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and 9s	£40.11		£40.11

YOUNG_GUN

looking back hand 1 & 2 were terrible, 3 cooler??

Hand 1) was commited so should have called but felt lml was very strong
hand 2) I didnt think Tommy had anything which was correct just couldnt pull the trigger
hand 3) Cooler but at any point could anyone have got of this baring in mind its LML who is aggro and loves AJ :P

Rest of game i think played ok but thats the problem you play 2 or 3 hands wrong against good players and you get punished

pryce6

hand 1) Once you flat the 3 bet pre and raise the flop you cannot fold it's pretty much that simple.

hand 2) Fold pre - although I guess you can set mine for his stack. Once you miss just fold.

hand 3) Cooler considering she showed up with 6s before. The 5 bet is pretty strong though.

YOUNG_GUN

Thank you pryce spot on analysis, just trying to iron out my cash game. hopefully philuk, Tommy, Donkey or LML read this and send me a pm of any bad things i did etc

here to learn..... anymore?

P.S playing with these people for 1hour and half and only 1 buy in down and bit thats not too bad i dont mind as i learnt a bit and was good fun

DOHHHHHHH

First one is fine, coz LM is nutz. This makes the third one fine, coz LM is nutz.

Keep saying I dont like getting 100xbb in pre with JJ/QQ, let alone 200xbb! But again, it's ok, coz LM is nutz.

To fold the 22's pre to a 3 bet 240xbb deep wud be nittier than donkeyplops level of nittyness. You can call 1 time on that flop against most opponents, but you know tommy is gonna keep the pressure on on the turn. Against weaker players you can call flop, and wait for their check on the turn, then fire out and take it down.

What was the thinking behind the raise?

YOUNG_GUN

I raised because i thought he was weak, which was half true although had ak didnt have any of the board

didnt want to just flat flop as would rather just win there and then as would rather no more cards as be hard to know where i was at. the size was my way of putting pressure on him but it didnt work so folded, most people i wouldnt make this bet as i know tommy has very wide range of hands and likely c betting the flop thought i would take it down there. usually will not go any further with 2s just a bluff really based on how strong i thought tommy was

donkeyplop

In Response to Re: 3 problem hands last night in fun game:

First one is fine, coz LM is nutz. This makes the third one fine, coz LM is nutz. Keep saying I dont like getting 100xbb in pre with JJ/QQ, let alone 200xbb! But again, it's ok, coz LM is nutz. To fold the 22's pre to a 3 bet 240xbb deep wud be nittier than donkeyplops level of nittyness. You can call 1 time on that flop against most opponents, but you know tommy is gonna keep the pressure on on the turn. Against weaker players you can call flop, and wait for their check on the turn, then fire out and take it down. What was the thinking behind the raise?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I was going to ask about that with this hand from same game!

Would you of called to see a flop then rather than get it all in pre???

My concern was if I called and any over card came I could of got bullied off of my hand.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
LML	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£19.85
TommyD	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£26.68
	Your hole cards	J J
RMR80	Fold
phil12uk	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£30.23
YOUNG_GUN	Call		£0.40	£0.95	£36.67
donkeyplop	Raise		£1.60	£2.55	£18.27
LML	Fold
TommyD	Raise		£5.00	£7.55	£21.68
phil12uk	Fold
YOUNG_GUN	Fold
donkeyplop	Raise		£10.50	£18.05	£7.77
TommyD	All-in		£21.68	£39.73	£0.00
donkeyplop	All-in		£7.77	£47.50	£0.00
TommyD	Unmatched bet		£6.91	£40.59	£6.91
TommyD	Show	K A
donkeyplop	Show	J J
Flop
		Q 9 5
Turn
		10
River
		Q
donkeyplop	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and Jacks	£39.19		£39.19

lynx3ffect

1 and 2 you couldnt play worse if u tried -

1. why are raising that flop, i assume its to find out where u are which u know is dire. You wont get called by worse when raising so theres no value in doing so, if you look at her bet sizing you can flat and shes left with a PSB on turn which u call off on any card basically as you think shes weak. So i either fold flop or call/call.

raise/fold is just ridic given the pot odds

2. prety much identical to hand 1, again you either fold flop or flat and play a turn but that flop hits a 3betters range pretty hard and playing 22 down the streets against an agro villain wont be easy or profitable so a fold is best

YOUNG_GUN

i agree lynx cheers for the advce hence why i have posted these are only 3 hands i played bad but will cost you against good players.

donkeyplop

Yeah 2nd hand id call to hit set but once you miss that should be the end imo.

pryce6

In Response to Re: 3 problem hands last night in fun game:

I raised because i thought he was weak, which was half true although had ak didnt have any of the board didnt want to just flat flop as would rather just win there and then as would rather no more cards as be hard to know where i was at. the size was my way of putting pressure on him but it didnt work so folded, most people i wouldnt make this bet as i know tommy has very wide range of hands and likely c betting the flop thought i would take it down there. usually will not go any further with 2s just a bluff really based on how strong i thought tommy was
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

Thing is that flop connects with so much of his 3 betting range so putting pressure on him ain't gonna work, especially if he's willing to stack off with a gutshot and two overs.

YOUNG_GUN

i understand that im not justifying it, i was responding to dohhhh's question thats all. I dont think he was willing to stack of with overs & gutshot he basically read what i had and wanted is happy with the fold from me.

Same donkey as i have said would 95% of time fold if didnt hit after this but as against tommyd, i understand it could have hit his 3 betting range but i personally thought he had missed which was correct and i still think my fold is right as i didnt want to go to showdown with a pair of 2s, i wanted him to fold. come on tommy would love your input on this as the play was opponent specific

TommyD

Young Gun, really glad you posted these hands, they are perfect for the Clinic.

Hand 2 (our hand) is a question of levels.  This might read confusing but hopefully I can explain it:

Preflop - You know that I don't need a premium hand to 3bet pre, however I know that you know this.  After you flat I have you on slowplaying big pairs, set mining with middle pairs, maybe suited cons.  I feel it's more unlikely you have 2nd level broadway cards (KQ, KJ etc) as I think you are more likely to fourbet/fold with these holdings.

Flop - The board comes down very unconnected and very much in the raisers camp.  I know that you know that I will fire on the flop and turn so I don't think you raise here more often than you flat if you have that monster (it's a great board to slow play).  I know you know that I will c-bet a high portion of the time so took your raise as a bluff and acted accordingly.  Sometimes it's just a race to see who can get to the all in button first.  In your position I would have probably gotten out of the way pre.  If I chose to turn my hand into a bluff I would have been a little more subtle about it and probably floated to try and represent huge strength.  The downside of this of course would be if the Jack hit the turn, but what's life without a little risk.

In conclusion, it's all about what I know that you know that I know that you know.  Simples.

Well played last night by the way, hoping for more of those kinds of sessions soon.

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: 3 problem hands last night in fun game:

Young Gun, really glad you posted these hands, they are perfect for the Clinic. Hand 2 (our hand) is a question of levels.  This might read confusing but hopefully I can explain it: Preflop - You know that I don't need a premium hand to 3bet pre, however I know that you know this.  After you flat I have you on slowplaying big pairs, set mining with middle pairs, maybe suited cons.  I feel it's more unlikely you have 2nd level broadway cards (KQ, KJ etc) as I think you are more likely to fourbet/fold with these holdings. Flop - The board comes down very unconnected and very much in the raisers camp.  I know that you know that I will fire on the flop and turn so I don't think you raise here more often than you flat if you have that monster (it's a great board to slow play).  I know you know that I will c-bet a high portion of the time so took your raise as a bluff and acted accordingly.  Sometimes it's just a race to see who can get to the all in button first.  In your position I would have probably gotten out of the way pre.  If I chose to turn my hand into a bluff I would have been a little more subtle about it and probably floated to try and represent huge strength.  The downside of this of course would be if the Jack hit the turn, but what's life without a little risk. In conclusion, it's all about what I know that you know that I know that you know.  Simples. Well played last night by the way, hoping for more of those kinds of sessions soon.
Posted by TommyD

Cheers tommy great insight very glad you have commented on this, just shows your a level ahead of me at the mo but i will be there...... Yeah was great game last night mate and look forward to another game soon. as for my bet just thinking does look very bluffy lol i didnt really react to my image here did i lol oh well live and learn thanks for the lesson mate appreciate it )

LOL_RAISE

i havent played with him much but i seriously doubt young gun is 4bet bluffing with KQ KJ QJ preflop.

postflop is super spew in 1&2 for reasons lynx stated.

just bc LML is 3bet bluffing 774r with 66 doesnt mean she is 5betting preflop light

YOUNG_GUN

lol you have you not played lml?

LOL_RAISE

nop

simonnatur

Plus points in playing 22   you flop a set or fold, easy to play. Calling against aggro opponent, turn and river always bringing overcards and you're playing a guessing game for all your money - not good

Bad point playing 22 your gteed to flop bottom set, sometimes costly

PLs dont think I'm being too critical of your play against what I'ld classify as borderline maniacs, dont think you did much wrong except folding 99 after getting a third of your stack in.

I'ld just give more consideration to check calling and keeping pot small and letting them hang themselves with their aggression, rather than fighting fire with fire and making the pots so big that they are almost forced to try and outplay you.

TommyD

In Response to Re: 3 problem hands last night in fun game:

i havent played with him much but i seriously doubt young gun is 4bet bluffing with KQ KJ QJ preflop. postflop is super spew in 1&2 for reasons lynx stated. just bc LML is 3bet bluffing 774r with 66 doesnt mean she is 5betting preflop light
Posted by LOL_RAISE

Hi LOL_Raise

I probably didn't make myself clear.  I was stated I didn't think YG would flat with such holdings, he would either fold or raise.  I admit I believe he would fold much more than he would 4bet, but I do think he could 4bet with those holdings if he believed I have 3bet with air and turn these holdings into essentially a bluff.