I agree with DOHH.. and TK's posts. I read on another forum the other day that you should treat a re-buy as 7 times the original buy-in. I don't think that is necessarily true on Skypoker as a lot of people seem to be reluctant to re-buy (which means if you have re-bought 3 or 4 times you need to get well into the cash to break even) but my guess is that you need to commit 5 times buy-in before you start. There is no reason why you shouldn't have 7k (2k+2k+3k) in chips once it goes into freezout i.e. lots of chips to play with! It surprises me that people will try to keep onto their starting stack - you will just be bullied by anyone who plays the re-buy in the right way plus there are so many who don't do the add-on and I think it is almost mandatory to do so (3K chips for the price of 2K). I will add-on even if I am chip leader at the end of the re-buy period as it might make all the difference if somebody sucks out on you later. I also think it's a great test of changing your speed during a tourney i.e. play lots of hands during the re-buy period given the correct odds (i.e. even though you know you don't have the best hand) and tighten up enourmously right after it turns into a freezeout. It's amazing how, if you've been loose during the re-buy period, that during the freezout somebody tight will go all-in with a hand like A9 against your raise thinking you will have nothing. Great. Saying all those +ve's - I don't think the speed/scary re-buys work as well as towards the end of the re-buy hour the re-buy is such a small multiple of the BB. Multi-tabling when one is a re-buy doesn't work for me and is why I don't play the 9pm tourney as much as I'd like. Cheers, Ian Posted by Doudeau
Good point Mr Dou, but I disagree with the numbers.
My personal rule with Sky Poker Rebuys is to budget for 4 times the Entry Fee.
That is broken down thusly.....
Entry Fee = 1
Immediate Rebuy = 1
Accident Insurance = 1
Add-On = 1.
In recent weeks, I've amended that to three, by omitting the "Accident Insurance".
I applied a good deal of thought to this (poker players tend to be more sheep than shepherds, but it's good to think things through), & came up with my own strategy.
In essence, I take the Rebuy/Add-on as per Plan B (Omitting the Accident Insurance) & mostly (though not 100% SIT-OUT until after the Add-Ons are completed, only playing Monstas, or "free flops" in my Blinds. At that stage, I have some 60 or 80xBB's, & now, with the Blinds at 50-100 or whatever, I can try to apply my edge (if it exists....) in a well-structured Tourney. As a result, I cash in more Rebuys than I don't.
So, what I'm saying is, THREE times the Buy-in is my yardstick, or rule of thumb. So for a Tenner rebuy, if I can afford a £30 Freezey, it's much the same thing as to Bankroll.
Either way, good luck whether you play them or not.
In Response to Re: rebuys : Good point Mr Dou, but I disagree with the numbers. My personal rule with Sky Poker Rebuys is to budget for 4 times the Entry Fee. That is broken down thusly..... Entry Fee = 1 Immediate Rebuy = 2 Accident Insurance = 1 Add-On = 1. In recent weeks, I've amended that to three, by omitting the "Accident Insurance". I applied a good deal of thought to this (poker players tend to be more sheep than shepherds, but it's good to think things through), & came up with my own strategy. In essence, I take the Rebuy/Add-on as per Plan B (Omitting the Accident Insurance) & mostly (though not 100% SIT-OUT until after the Add-Ons are completed, only playing Monstas, or "free flops" in my Blinds. At that stage, I have some 60 or 80xBB's, & now, with the Blinds at 50-100 or whatever, I can try to apply my edge (if it exists....) in a well-structured Tourney. As a result, I cash in more Rebuys than I don't. So, what I'm saying is, THREE times the Buy-in is my yardstick, or rule of thumb. So for a Tenner rebuy, if I can afford a £30 Freezey, it's much the same thing as to Bankroll. Either way, good luck whether you play them or not. Posted by Tikay10
I agree with your logic but will happily pay the accident insurance if I have given my chips away to players I think will give them back to me sometimes soon.
I hate em - they may be ok at the higher levels to beat variance etc but at lower levels just gives the chancers more than 1 go.
I buy into £1-£3 tourneys not because i prefer em to the Primo etc its just because I cant AFFORD to play in the Primo. So my £2 buy-in is what I can afford, I am not competing on a level playing field as someone else has 4 times that as they can afford to part with 3 buy-ins.
Also promotes this sort of thing (real life example from the other day - my last ever re-buy) - Table is completely nuts ie all in with any better than 109o. I wait patiently for the hand get kk - and get all the chips in to find i'm up against (no lie) 94suited, A2o, 87o & 107 suited (the 107 won)
Even if I could afford to rebuy, why would I want too. Might as well get a lottery ticket!
However I dont think they should be scraped as some people may love em (If we all liked the same things would ba a boring place!) but I will be giving em a wide berth in future.
My 2 penneth worth I hate em - they may be ok at the higher levels to beat variance etc but at lower levels just gives the chancers more than 1 go. I buy into £1-£3 tourneys not because i prefer em to the Primo etc its just because I cant AFFORD to play in the Primo. So my £2 buy-in is what I can afford, I am not competing on a level playing field as someone else has 4 times that as they can afford to part with 3 buy-ins. Also promotes this sort of thing (real life example from the other day - my last ever re-buy) - Table is completely nuts ie all in with any better than 109o. I wait patiently for the hand get kk - and get all the chips in to find i'm up against (no lie) 94suited, A2o, 87o & 107 suited (the 107 won) Even if I could afford to rebuy, why would I want too. Might as well get a lottery ticket! Posted by Ploppy33
A not unreasonable view, Ploppy, but see my strategy above, I just don't mess with the early chancers, they are deffo "tricky" to negotiate, & as a result, I cash in more than I don't.
But each to their own, & if you don't like them, I agree, it's best if you swerve them.
I have a very simple answer to the opening post and that is NO.The introduction of any new variant to the norm is always a good thing as long as it doesnt totally replace the original. Diversity is good from the providers side and the consumers side.The more choices we have then the better chance of finding what we want.
I personally have a real hatred for rebuys and fast structure tourneys. All this means is that you wont find me playing in them , whereas others will love these things and will play them.Their existence does not force me to play them and nor do i but instead i find a nice little £2-20 deepstack to while away my time.For me the only real change noticeable will be a movement in numbers playing in each style of these tournys and therefore leaving people in the style of tourny they want playing against others who want to be in that style tourny as well.
On a personal note whilst we are talking about change, i would like to see the PLO and PLO8 tournys being played deeper because i believe they are much better suited to a larger starting stack and will provide the opportunity for some great play in them.
Sorry for straying there but in general i would just like to say that i am a big fan of the site and for me these changes are only for the good even though they will have no affect on me at all. Good luck on the tables to you all in what ever style of game you play.
I have to admit that I quite like rebuy tournaments, although I don't play very many of them, and like Tikay I set myself a limit of how many rebuys I will make in a game, Personally I have a maximum of 2 rebuys + the addon.
Having said that, what I don't like is the way Sky have suddenly changed their standard freerolls (Super Six and Fantasy Football), which have been very well supported into rebuys, but I guess those changes are just something that I am going to have to live with.
I have a very simple answer to the opening post and that is NO.The introduction of any new variant to the norm is always a good thing as long as it doesnt totally replace the original. Diversity is good from the providers side and the consumers side.The more choices we have then the better chance of finding what we want. I personally have a real hatred for rebuys and fast structure tourneys. All this means is that you wont find me playing in them , whereas others will love these things and will play them.Their existence does not force me to play them and nor do i but instead i find a nice little £2-20 deepstack to while away my time.For me the only real change noticeable will be a movement in numbers playing in each style of these tournys and therefore leaving people in the style of tourny they want playing against others who want to be in that style tourny as well. On a personal note whilst we are talking about change, i would like to see the PLO and PLO8 tournys being played deeper because i believe they are much better suited to a larger starting stack and will provide the opportunity for some great play in them. Sorry for straying there but in general i would just like to say that i am a big fan of the site and for me these changes are only for the good even though they will have no affect on me at all. Good luck on the tables to you all in what ever style of game you play. Posted by Talon
I have to admit that I quite like rebuy tournaments, although I don't play very many of them, and like Tikay I set myself a limit of how many rebuys I will make in a game, Personally I have a maximum of 2 rebuys + the addon. Having said that, what I don't like is the way Sky have suddenly changed their standard freerolls (Super Six and Fantasy Football), which have been very well supported into rebuys, but I guess those changes are just something that I am going to have to live with. Posted by Kiwini4u
+1 Steve.
looking at the 'tone' of Tikay's response to my earlier post, I will only say this....
If it was say the £22 Monday DS that Sky Poker suddenly changed into a rebuy without prior notification, there would be a lot more 'noise' made on the forum and it would be from the 'larger' BR players which without a doubt would be actioned on. As Super six is mainly for the majority of the smaller BR players, we have to just take it on the chin without repose.
Like people keep reiterating, its a personnel choice of what games we play and where we play them.
In Response to Re: rebuys : A not unreasonable view, Ploppy, but see my strategy above, I just don't mess with the early chancers, they are deffo "tricky" to negotiate, & as a result, I cash in more than I don't. But each to their own, & if you don't like them, I agree, it's best if you swerve them. Posted by Tikay10
In a freezeout I saw tikay get it in with a set against a gut shot, (or something where he was an 80% favourite with all the money in on the flop) - The guy hit and he was out.
His analysis - "My fault for getting involved this early" - I wonder if he actually means that????? Surely not??
In Response to Re: rebuys : So U fold KK here then tikay? - about 25 mins in What about AA? Posted by Ploppy33
No - as I said, or intended to say (!), I only play Monstas or "free flops" at that stage, so yes, I'd play K-K or A-A for sure.
But I'd play them VERY strongly indeed, & not try to get cute.
The key thing is to adapt our strategy to suit what we are playing, & I adjust my game play in Rebuys considerably, compared to Freezeouts.
In Live Poker, I MUCH prefer Freezeouts, & in fact I refuse to play Live Freezeouts, because I'm not very good at them, in truth, & have not found the "key". So I don't play them.
You can still play the freerolls for free. In a freezeout I saw tikay get it in with a set against a gut shot, (or something where he was an 80% favourite with all the money in on the flop) - The guy hit and he was out. His analysis - "My fault for getting involved this early" - I wonder if he actually means that????? Surely not?? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Sort of, JJ, yes, I did.
It's just how I play, I prefer not to get involved early, as I find it incredibly difficult to play multi-way pots when everyone is calling.
I well recall the hand, in fact, & I mean't what I said. I raised huge Pre, & bet strongly the Flop & turn, but he would not go away, & he rivered his 4-outer. It's best not to lob insults at them when they do this, as over time, we want them to chase. And I really did blame myself for getting involved, as I had enough chips to go on & win the thing.
I'm swimming against the tide with this view, I well know that, but it works for me, & I'm too old to change my game now.
Such edge as I may (or may not....) have in Tourneys is in the later stages, as so many people play so badly at that stage, that I found loads of extremely exploitable spots, & in the early stages, I can't find these spots.
I get more chips from squeezing serial limpers in late stages of Tourneys than anything else, this is both Online, & Live. When the ave stack is, say, 20 x BB, & I find 4 limpers on my Button or BB, they had better know I'm squeezing, most every time, for sure. The ONLY player we need to worry about is the original Limper or min-raiser. A fourth of fifth smooth-caller cannot possibly have a monsta, unless he's seriously bad!
In Response to Re: rebuys : Sort of, JJ, yes, I did. It's just how I play, I prefer not to get involved early, as I find it incredibly difficult to play multi-way pots when everyone is calling. I well recall the hand, in fact, & I mean't what I said. I raised huge Pre, & bet strongly the Flop & turn, but he would not go away, & he rivered his 4-outer. It's best not to lob insults at them when they do this, as over time, we want them to chase. And I really did blame myself for getting involved, as I had enough chips to go on & win the thing. I'm swimming against the tide with this view, I well know that, but it works for me, & I'm too old to change my game now. Such edge as I may (or may not....) have in Tourneys is in the later stages, as so many people play so badly at that stage, that I found loads of extremely exploitable spots, & in the early stages, I can't find these spots. I get more chips from squeezing serial limpers in late stages of Tourneys than anything else, this is both Online, & Live. When the ave stack is, say, 20 x BB, & I find 4 limpers on my Button or BB, they had better know I'm squeezing, most every time, for sure. The ONLY player we need to worry about is the original Limper or min-raiser. A fourth of fifth smooth-caller cannot possibly have a monsta, unless he's seriously bad! Each to their own, though.
Posted by Tikay10
Surely not - lol
I thought u've said any number of times on the telly how we all should keep learning?
In Response to Re: rebuys : True, Plops, but between you & me - & let's keep it that way - I'm actually VERY old. Keep that quiet though, eh? Posted by Tikay10
Comments
My personal rule with Sky Poker Rebuys is to budget for 4 times the Entry Fee.
That is broken down thusly.....
Entry Fee = 1
Immediate Rebuy = 1
Accident Insurance = 1
Add-On = 1.
In recent weeks, I've amended that to three, by omitting the "Accident Insurance".
I applied a good deal of thought to this (poker players tend to be more sheep than shepherds, but it's good to think things through), & came up with my own strategy.
In essence, I take the Rebuy/Add-on as per Plan B (Omitting the Accident Insurance) & mostly (though not 100% SIT-OUT until after the Add-Ons are completed, only playing Monstas, or "free flops" in my Blinds. At that stage, I have some 60 or 80xBB's, & now, with the Blinds at 50-100 or whatever, I can try to apply my edge (if it exists....) in a well-structured Tourney. As a result, I cash in more Rebuys than I don't.
So, what I'm saying is, THREE times the Buy-in is my yardstick, or rule of thumb. So for a Tenner rebuy, if I can afford a £30 Freezey, it's much the same thing as to Bankroll.
Either way, good luck whether you play them or not.
I hate em - they may be ok at the higher levels to beat variance etc but at lower levels just gives the chancers more than 1 go.
I buy into £1-£3 tourneys not because i prefer em to the Primo etc its just because I cant AFFORD to play in the Primo. So my £2 buy-in is what I can afford, I am not competing on a level playing field as someone else has 4 times that as they can afford to part with 3 buy-ins.
Also promotes this sort of thing (real life example from the other day - my last ever re-buy) - Table is completely nuts ie all in with any better than 109o. I wait patiently for the hand get kk - and get all the chips in to find i'm up against (no lie) 94suited, A2o, 87o & 107 suited (the 107 won)
Even if I could afford to rebuy, why would I want too. Might as well get a lottery ticket!
However I dont think they should be scraped as some people may love em (If we all liked the same things would ba a boring place!) but I will be giving em a wide berth in future.
But each to their own, & if you don't like them, I agree, it's best if you swerve them.
I personally have a real hatred for rebuys and fast structure tourneys. All this means is that you wont find me playing in them , whereas others will love these things and will play them.Their existence does not force me to play them and nor do i but instead i find a nice little £2-20 deepstack to while away my time.For me the only real change noticeable will be a movement in numbers playing in each style of these tournys and therefore leaving people in the style of tourny they want playing against others who want to be in that style tourny as well.
On a personal note whilst we are talking about change, i would like to see the PLO and PLO8 tournys being played deeper because i believe they are much better suited to a larger starting stack and will provide the opportunity for some great play in them.
Sorry for straying there but in general i would just like to say that i am a big fan of the site and for me these changes are only for the good even though they will have no affect on me at all. Good luck on the tables to you all in what ever style of game you play.
Having said that, what I don't like is the way Sky have suddenly changed their standard freerolls (Super Six and Fantasy Football), which have been very well supported into rebuys, but I guess those changes are just something that I am going to have to live with.
+1 to this despite my earlier rant
What about AA?
But I'd play them VERY strongly indeed, & not try to get cute.
The key thing is to adapt our strategy to suit what we are playing, & I adjust my game play in Rebuys considerably, compared to Freezeouts.
In Live Poker, I MUCH prefer Freezeouts, & in fact I refuse to play Live Freezeouts, because I'm not very good at them, in truth, & have not found the "key". So I don't play them.
It's just how I play, I prefer not to get involved early, as I find it incredibly difficult to play multi-way pots when everyone is calling.
I well recall the hand, in fact, & I mean't what I said. I raised huge Pre, & bet strongly the Flop & turn, but he would not go away, & he rivered his 4-outer. It's best not to lob insults at them when they do this, as over time, we want them to chase. And I really did blame myself for getting involved, as I had enough chips to go on & win the thing.
I'm swimming against the tide with this view, I well know that, but it works for me, & I'm too old to change my game now.
Such edge as I may (or may not....) have in Tourneys is in the later stages, as so many people play so badly at that stage, that I found loads of extremely exploitable spots, & in the early stages, I can't find these spots.
I get more chips from squeezing serial limpers in late stages of Tourneys than anything else, this is both Online, & Live. When the ave stack is, say, 20 x BB, & I find 4 limpers on my Button or BB, they had better know I'm squeezing, most every time, for sure. The ONLY player we need to worry about is the original Limper or min-raiser. A fourth of fifth smooth-caller cannot possibly have a monsta, unless he's seriously bad!
Each to their own, though.
I thought u've said any number of times on the telly how we all should keep learning?
Behave, Elliot! *
* Or is that "Eliott"?
PS - Should that question mark be inside, or outside, the quotation marks?
tikay is over 100 at last count Ploppy