easy stackoff?? OMAHA

BURNShurtz

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
BURNShurtz	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£9.11
Redvers	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£6.30
	Your hole cards	2 K 10 10
chrisbhoy	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£26.10
Eagles1	Call		£0.30	£0.75	£15.74
INK	Fold
p8pnt	Call		£0.30	£1.05	£7.89
BURNShurtz	Call		£0.25	£1.30	£8.86
Redvers	Fold
Flop
		K 10 7
BURNShurtz	Bet		£0.98	£2.28	£7.88
chrisbhoy	Call		£0.98	£3.26	£25.12
Eagles1	Fold
p8pnt	Raise		£5.22	£8.48	£2.67
BURNShurtz	All-in		£7.88	£16.36	£0.00
chrisbhoy	Call		£7.88	£24.24	£17.24
p8pnt	All-in		£2.67	£26.91	£0.00
BURNShurtz	Show	2 K 10 10
chrisbhoy	Show	9 8 J 9
p8pnt	Show	7 K 8 2
Turn
		8
River
		A
chrisbhoy	Win	Straight to the Jack	£26.21

The_Don90

the thing about this is we ony have a set. Very drawy board, i probably let it go. Talon will probably tell me its a call though. My problem is its against two opponents, HU i do call.

YOUNG_GUN

I'd fold here, middle set on draw heavy board and no other draws

you all overplayed your hands here though reload if you know how to play as lots of valuuuuuuuu

LOL_RAISE

i get monies in asap

The_Don90

In Response to Re: easy stackoff?? OMAHA:

i get monies in asap
Posted by LOL_RAISE

 in holdem yes this is the correct play but surley a losing play in omaha?

Talon

  Ok for my twopenneth worth.

  First of all this hand should probably be a fold pre flop.You only have 2 nut drawing hands  KTs and TT which makes this quite a weak hand.Playing marginal hands preflop to a raise is what gets people into trouble in omaha when they hit a small piece of the flop.This being said i dont mind the call pre too much but with caution in mind.


  When the flop comes down you have the second nuts and i like your lead out bet with this hand.When the answer comes back you need to evaluate your hand.The board has hit all 89 and JQ hands giving them a big draw as well as there being a flush draw on board.With so many draws out and so much action you must now know that you need to improve your hand to win because others are likely to on this board.

  This is where a card that was in your hand and helped it looked strong now becomes a weakness.The K in your hand lowered the chance of some having a higher set but now it means you have lost an out.So at this point you have 2K 1 T and 3 7's to hit. This makes you about 1 in 4 chance of winning unless you can avoid all the outs that everyone else will have.This for me makes it an easy fold on the flop.


 The danger of playing pocket pairs is they are very vulnerable even if they do hit unless you have redraws to go with them. In this hand if the K and 2 had been hearts then this would be a snap call. No matter how big you hit a hand you still need to be looking at other ways in which you can win it other than it standing up down the streets.

 

LOL_RAISE

assuming that chrisbhoy is going to be flatting the initial flop bet and then stacking off afterwards is just being results orientated imo.

we have 46% vs AhQcJdJc heads up. so folding is a mistake when chrisbhoy folds. even if you add another hand in for chris where he has like 896x with a backdoor club draw we still have 36% equity in a 3way pot.

the only way we cant get our money in here is if we soulread villain for JhQh8c9c

Talon

  Any decisions about this pot are made in the dark. There is absolutely no reason at all why one of these guys could not be holding KK which if this were the case you would be getting your money in behind and drawing to a 1 outer to win.  The only things to really consider is the fact that the holding is second nuts on a very draw heavy board whilst holding no redraws. These are just situations that need to be avoided. With this holding the type of flop you are looking for is 10 6 2 rainbow or with 2 diamonds on the board to give the best hand plus the extensions and redraws.

 Omaha is truly a game of temporary nuts with draws and redraws aplenty. With this in mind when considering getting all the chips over the line you need to consider where you are in the hand and how many scare cards there are available.Against 2 opponents in a heavily contested pot you must seriously consider the fact that every possible draw is out against you. Paranoia is a way of life for the omaha player and should remain so.

LOL_RAISE

like i said i gave them all the straight draws, nutflush draw backdoor club draw and we have 36% equity in a 3way pot.

chrisbhoy

just reading this post and not that i mind my name being put on here other people would not so maybe its best to change peoples names.

I cant remember this particular hand however I probably called the all ins knowing all my outs plus i was already the big stack at the table. ( if i lost i would still have a very good stack) plus 1 of the players mentioned is a very aggresive omaha player whom often plays with little and nothing.  I'm not an expert on odds in omaha as they are pretty confusing however i would say i was at least 33% chance of winning hand to treble up the all in which would say i had the odds to make the call with my outs.
any jack, any 8 and 9 and any 6 to win this hand.
I was putting burn on the flopped set as I dont think i have ever had him go all in on a flush draw before, the other guy well he was just a crazy player!

DeucesLive

well, 4 Qs, 3 Js, 2 9s, 3 8s and 4 6s for the straight is giving you 16 outs (sure, 4 of those aren't a guarantee but what is in omaha?) which is giving you massive equity in the hand- set against that of course, you can probably eliminate all the hearts from there which leaves 9 decent outs and 12 probable outs- still giving you well over the 33% required here IMO. Chris's hand is my favourite here post flop by a long way, it's the equivalent of having an open ended straight flush draw in holdem- being a statistical favourite without having a made hand.

As for second set, as Talon said- in terms of redraws, the only thing you're drawing to is the house- which you almost certainly would need here. Otherwise there's probably in the region of ~20 cards you have to fade twice, with only 5 outs drawing to your house.

p8's play was terrible IMO, the reraise allin by you is about the only talking point- I think there's an equal argument each way, but you have to think on that board you're up against a flush draw and a million straight draws. With a large stack taking an interest... folding is probably the best option in general, not just because he happened to hit this time.

I'm also not an omaha player, it's just how I view the hand however.

beaneh

not read thread. we gots sets and top set blocka. goooooooo for it yay

BURNShurtz

In Response to Re: easy stackoff?? OMAHA:

just reading this post and not that i mind my name being put on here other people would not so maybe its best to change peoples names. I cant remember this particular hand however I probably called the all ins knowing all my outs plus i was already the big stack at the table. ( if i lost i would still have a very good stack) plus 1 of the players mentioned is a very aggresive omaha player whom often plays with little and nothing.  I'm not an expert on odds in omaha as they are pretty confusing however i would say i was at least 33% chance of winning hand to treble up the all in which would say i had the odds to make the call with my outs. any jack, any 8 and 9 and any 6 to win this hand. I was putting burn on the flopped set as I dont think i have ever had him go all in on a flush draw before, the other guy well he was just a crazy player!
Posted by chrisbhoy

sorry for leavin the names in m8, always seem to forget that. just so you know that i would do exactly the same as you in that hand. when p8 reraises i could only go allin or fold, iv played you a bit so pretty sure you aint goin to call unless you got a good hand and when you did i new i was either behide to KK or a good str draw. would you have folded in my spot??

BURNShurtz

In Response to Re: easy stackoff?? OMAHA:

  Ok for my twopenneth worth.   First of all this hand should probably be a fold pre flop.You only have 2 nut drawing hands  KTs and TT which makes this quite a weak hand.Playing marginal hands preflop to a raise is what gets people into trouble in omaha when they hit a small piece of the flop.This being said i dont mind the call pre too much but with caution in mind.   When the flop comes down you have the second nuts and i like your lead out bet with this hand.When the answer comes back you need to evaluate your hand.The board has hit all 89 and JQ hands giving them a big draw as well as there being a flush draw on board.With so many draws out and so much action you must now know that you need to improve your hand to win because others are likely to on this board.   This is where a card that was in your hand and helped it looked strong now becomes a weakness.The K in your hand lowered the chance of some having a higher set but now it means you have lost an out.So at this point you have 2K 1 T and 3 7's to hit. This makes you about 1 in 4 chance of winning unless you can avoid all the outs that everyone else will have.This for me makes it an easy fold on the flop.  The danger of playing pocket pairs is they are very vulnerable even if they do hit unless you have redraws to go with them. In this hand if the K and 2 had been hearts then this would be a snap call. No matter how big you hit a hand you still need to be looking at other ways in which you can win it other than it standing up down the streets.  
Posted by Talon

hi talon, unless you are getting great starting hands and hitting big flops surely there will be a chance of someone drawing to a hand that may beat you?? if i worry to much about every drawing hand then maybe i should stick to snap lol ( only jokin lost alot of money to my nan playin that game), . btw in a 10 hand game i would be folding this to a raise but 6 handed i think i can see a flop. had the raise came from chris and not p8 post flop i would of prob ( not definatly)folded. also, whatever card came on the turn which did not make the house would of added another 3 outs. i do agree with alot you say tho boss

Talon

 The idea of waiting for great starting hands is a flawed concept because any hand can be totally destroyed by the flop. The main thing for me is just to limit your range to 3+ and not overrate pocket pairs no matter how big.If i had to say about a favourite hand then i would choose TJQK ds, 6 nut drawing hands that can win in multiple ways but if the flop comes down K72 rainbow then i can throw it away to any opposition.The main thing is to give yourself as good a chance as possible to hit the flop and win the hand and the more nut drawing combos you have preflop the better chance you have to hit either your hand or a big draw.

   If you look at the hands that went to show down on this hand. One was quite weak(yours) one was a complete joke(P8's) and one was very good(chris's).He had a lot more chance of winning preflop because of this strength and he did. Though this does not always work out it is good to remember that the better starting hand you have the better your chances.The main thing with this hand is that it is a cash game which means you have no time or blind pressure so you can do a lot of folding preflop and not just enter into the bingo mentality of any4 and hope to get lucky.Hopefully this will stop you getting into situations like this.Although this was not a really bad decision as far as it goes you can find a lot better spots if you have a little patience.