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Correct move based on my read?
Mohican
Member Posts: 1,435
This is my exit hand from last nights £5.50 totty.
As soon as the 5x bet came in I was thinking that's unusual. Had him on a weak pair,raggy ace or just plain stealing. Basically he didn't want a call. If i click it back, he's got the odds to call with ATC,any more and I'm pot committed so I decided the best course of action was the shove. Of course, I could have folded but when my reaction is so strong I have to go with it.
My questions are this-
1) Was my shove madness or correct for the reasons above?
2) Should I be taking notice of strong gut reactions or try to counter them with some logic?
Any thoughts on this appreciated as I still trying to work out if my raise made him call.
As soon as the 5x bet came in I was thinking that's unusual. Had him on a weak pair,raggy ace or just plain stealing. Basically he didn't want a call. If i click it back, he's got the odds to call with ATC,any more and I'm pot committed so I decided the best course of action was the shove. Of course, I could have folded but when my reaction is so strong I have to go with it.
My questions are this-
1) Was my shove madness or correct for the reasons above?
2) Should I be taking notice of strong gut reactions or try to counter them with some logic?
| player | Small blind | 150.00 | 150.00 | 10100.00 | |
| Mohican | Big blind | 300.00 | 450.00 | 8055.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| villian | Raise | 1500.00 | 1950.00 | 9195.00 | |
| player | Fold | ||||
| player | Fold | ||||
| Mohican | All-in | 8055.00 | 10005.00 | 0.00 | |
| villian | Call | 6855.00 | 16860.00 | 2340.00 | |
| Mohican | Show |
| |||
| villian | Show |
| |||
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| villian | Win | Two Pairs, Kings and 3s | 16860.00 | 19200.00 | |
Comments
To make it clear, I'd be happy to make that shove with far, far worse than AQ. I'd happily try that move with suited cons/small pairs/2 face cards too. Villain should be made a note of, because it really is a poor call- your shove folds out probably 80/90% of raising hands with those stack sizes and blind levels.
how had the villain been playing? loose by the looks of it.
hands i'd be worried about are aa kk qq ak, so if ur prepared to gamble with aq on a 4 handed table i think the shove was fine and imo the villain should have then folded
take my thoughts with a pinch of salt though, there are many better players on here who will prob say something completely different!! but i would have played the hand the same unless the villain had been a total nit before his raise.
how had the villain been playing? loose by the looks of it.
Just been moved to the table so no idea what he was like. That's why I say it was a gut instinct that told me he was weak. Carried on watching and it turns out he was a very loose calling station.
hands i'd be worried about are aa kk qq ak, so if ur prepared to gamble with aq on a 4 handed table i think the shove was fine and imo the villain should have then folded
I wouldn't normally gamble with AQ and if the raise had been 3x, I still would've 3 bet but it would have been only 2.5k and I can fold to a 4 bet shove.If he just calls then it's a bit trickier. Wasn't worried about those hands as the raise didn't suggest he had any of them.
For me I think it's possibly borderline shove or fold. You could call but then you're playing OOP with no idea where you are.
That's why I didn't call.
Thanks for the replys, hands like this bug me at times and I like to know that my thought processes are correct and in the long run I'm making the right move regardless of the outcome. Obviously I loved the call but the K was a large sigh moment.
And when you do call me with your JJ/QQ etc, I'll laugh as I suck out on you with my flushes and straights ^^
vs Ax 70/30
vs AK 30/70
vs KK or QQ 30/70
vs JJ or lower 48/52
vs AA 10/90
vs Kx 60/40
vs 2 unders 66/34.
Now you are sat there with nearly 30BB and therefore not in any blind trouble at this stage ina nice slow structured tourny. The question you need to ask yourself is , is this the best spot you will find to get your chips over the line? You will not be any better than 70% fave against any possble holding so your decision needs to be based on this. If you are content with this then the way you played it was fine, calling would have been the worst possible option. For me at this stage of the tourny i am quite happy to give up my BB if i am going to be pot committed with a drawing hand but i may possibly be too tight. But for me the question i would ask myself is do i need to risk my tourny at no better than 70/30 fave in a situation where i dont have to?
I play this type of tourny tighter than most and it allows me to go quite deep in them. I do this by not shoving early unless i am truly massive and waiting till i am in shove or fold territory before shoving preflop later.At the end of the day we all pay our entry fee and can play these in anyway we want so as long as you are happy with the play then it is fine. This is all about mathematics vs tourny strategy, mathematically it was the correct play but sometimes the maths can take a backseat to tourny strategy. I hope some of this waffling is of some use.
as yb said, totally standard.
awful play by the villain!
Hi Colin, I Agree that AQ is a tricky hand, which is precisely why it is a shove in this situation imo. You have a perfect opportunity to pick up 1500 chips which is almost 20% to add to your stack, if the guy folds (which he should). If he doesnt fold you will usually be ahead or racing. Make him make the mistake by getting your money in, put the decision on him!!
I, like you, am a great believer in tournament survival over mathematics, but i do not agree that 30bbs is too "early" to be getting involved with a premium hand like AQ. This mid-late stage is where the crunch happens and we should start to amass chips by using every opportunity.
If you want to slowly fold into the cash (as i used to, but i am trying to develop my mtt game) then do it as it is a surefire way never to lose money, but it is clearly not optimal in terms of making the money at the top end of the mtt (where the bigger money is)
I do not think that this hand is the best example for tournament survival over mathmatics btw for the reasons given that this is the time in a tourney where we should start to get moving imo. This is at least level 7!!
Just for clarity, If i had 100bs and it was level 2, and a villain raises 20X, i am insta folding AQ and not making the shove even though i can still add 20% to my stack. Its the fact that the blinds are now increasing and they are worth winning at 150/300, that makes the shove correct in this instance. 20% Makes a much bigger difference now than it would have done early.
I guess you just fold the AQ then here Colin?, is it the raise size that put you off? What would you do if it was min raise or up to standard 3X?
Thanks, Hoggers.
P.S, you were out waffled lol
I am beginning to wonder lol... i am always knocked out by these type of nonsense hands/calls hehe
mickjenn is running hotter than a hot thing and he sometimes makes questionable calls and binks for fun, but good luck him, i wish i had his mtt game i would be 20k up or summit.