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re-re raised but more worried about other player

phil12ukphil12uk Member Posts: 2,856
edited January 2011 in The Poker Clinic
I have been raised pre by a TAG reg who plays position well and is very solid. Player B's re-reshove gets the action back to me with the reg still to act.  What's my best move here? Player B had sat with the minimum about 5 mins previously and is unknown.
limitpoker Small blind   £1.00 £1.00 £814.15
B Big blind   £2.00 £3.00 £73.10
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • A
     
D_J_G_ Fold        
phil12uk Raise   £8.00 £11.00 £276.65
reg Raise   £22.00 £33.00 £331.52
A All-in   £2.20 £35.20 £0.00
limitpoker Fold        
B Raise   £34.00 £69.20 £39.10
           
       
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Comments

  • FlashFlushFlashFlush Member Posts: 4,494
    edited January 2011
    I'm a big fan of isolating the play and try and get hands heads up, personally I would 4bet to B's stack (so make it about 75 total) solid reg now really has to have a big hand, I think he folds everything bar AA,KK,QQ so if you see  a 5bet then ditch your hand. If Solid reg flats that £75 raise the chances are you guys will respect the pot and check it down.
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited January 2011
    How much in this session and in your history has Reg been 3beting your opening raises in position?
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  • phil12ukphil12uk Member Posts: 2,856
    edited January 2011
    nothing that makes me suspicious that he's doing it light tommy. 
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  • jakallyjakally Member Posts: 421
    edited January 2011
    In Response to Re: re-re raised but more worried about other player:
    I'm a big fan of isolating the play and try and get hands heads up, personally I would 4bet to B's stack (so make it about 75 total) solid reg now really has to have a big hand, I think he folds everything bar AA,KK,QQ so if you see  a 5bet then ditch your hand. If Solid reg flats that £75 raise the chances are you guys will respect the pot and check it down.
    Posted by FlashFlush
    I'm never raise folding in this spot, given that a reg could easily jam with AK or QQ.

    By making it £75, the reg may be tempted to call with some non-premiums (suited connectors etc...) knowing that the 3rd guy is going to call (£53 for the reg to call into a £170 pot with another £200 to play for). Problem with that is there is then a dry (ish) side pot, and it's difficult for us to win the pot without hitting..... although given the strength that the shortstack has repped, that's probably the case anyway.

    I would be tempted to make it a bit bigger (£100 - £110?) and call a jam from the reg.


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  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited January 2011
    phil get with the times its a 4-bet!!

    i think i make a 5-bet here.  if i'm gonna be 5-betting tho i'm never folding i would make it to like 110...

    flat call tho if you think that the solid reg is gonna be putting the shortstack AI with stuff like JJ/TT/AQ....if so then we can 6-bet jam and that looks like the strongest thing in the world.
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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush Member Posts: 4,494
    edited January 2011
    I understand that you guys want to commit yourself to the pot, but really is it +EV to call a 6bet shove from a reg grinder with AK? Thats why I felt you can still show strength with a £70 bet and get away from it.

    Its not a great way of playing but this is a tough spot and better than putting £200 in with A high imo
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited January 2011
    It depends totally on reads, if your willing to stack off with AK 140bbs deep then I'd 5bet to ~ 72 and snap call a shove. I think this sizing is a lot better than 110, doing a 5bet from like 17bbs to 55bbs is just stupid imo. Against certain aggro players you can flat with the intention of 6bet shoving like scotty says as they are gonna be iso-raising pretty wide. If the reg is so nitty and bad you can flat the 4bet and re-evaluate.
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited January 2011
    Why do we want to get involved with AK which is just a drawing hand 3 ways when there is a strong chance one of these guys has AA/KK as the implied odds have to be against you?????


    I take it you folded Phil with posting it?
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog Member Posts: 729
    edited January 2011
    Whatever you do, don't 5b fold lol
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited January 2011
    I'm inclined to fold Phil.  Short stack is representing huge strength (I'm thinking QQ+, AK) and the TAG Reg will be strong significantly more often than not.  I've got to go along with Jakally that I strongly suspect we have to hit to win and I think some of our outs are in the other hands.  Don't like the spot, I think you can find better.

    I don't like the 5bet here.  Short stack is calling their stack off 100% of the time with a hand range I don't think we play well against and Tag Reg shouldn't be calling here at all, it'll be a jam with hands that crush us or we're folding out everything we beat/play well against.
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited January 2011

    Regarding calling, I just don't like calling a 4bet if I'm not closing the betting.  A jam is forcing you out and leaving all of that dead money on the table.

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  • phil12ukphil12uk Member Posts: 2,856
    edited January 2011
    Reason I posted it was because I shoved. Realised at time it was not a good decision. TAG folded and 'B' called with AA.  Is there any positives in shoving here or is it just bad on way too many levels?
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  • waynecwaynec Member Posts: 1,023
    edited January 2011
    In Response to Re: re-re raised but more worried about other player:
    Reason I posted it was because I shoved. Realised at time it was not a good decision. TAG folded and 'B' called with AA.  Is there any positives in shoving here or is it just bad on way too many levels?
    Posted by phil12uk
    A little theory I have is when the action preflop really gets busy like this AK is not that good as I believe there is a big chance these players are holding a number of your outs and ur racing QQ with KK AA big favs. Not sure if this correct but just my opinion.
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