In Response to Re: JJ looks suspect your views : if we flat hes not calling with Q K A rag, if we have overpair on flop and bet and he shoves we call because if he has AA KK QQ he would call if we shove pre so it dosent really matter, so what im saying is the only big cards hes calling our flat with will be the same he would call our shove with, he prolly wont bluff post flop as it would be a dry side pot Posted by N1CK
+1
Wayne you really should listen to this. So often people ask for advice and ignore the advice they are given. What is worse, they then post advice to lesser experienced players and get them into bad habits. In the heat of the moment I might have shoved the JJ, but when you look at the hand away from the table a flat call here is definately worth considering.
In Response to Re: JJ looks suspect your views : +1 Wayne you really should listen to this. So often people ask for advice and ignore the advice they are given. What is worse, they then post advice to lesser experienced players and get them into bad habits. In the heat of the moment I might have shoved the JJ, but when you look at the hand away from the table a flat call here is definately worth considering. Posted by Wilhelm
Wilhelm if you read back I say I felt the shove was a wrong play (hence my post for advise) and a better player would have laid it down, I have taken on board the comments and advise given to me which varies from shove, call and fold. From these people the ones I respect as being good players seem to feel the fold is correct and from the arguments offered IMO feel they are correct, I won the pot this time but should I find myself in this spot again I will strongly favour fold pre. You seem to favour the call, I do not know anything about your poker back ground which maybe a wealth of experience in which case we have two camps here both with experienced players saying call with the other fold.... whom do I listen too? AS JJ says early in this thread players playing at 30nl and above would fold this without blinking, we have to listen to this advise too dont you think?
Plus Nick is replying to a post by tapeworm whom presented his arguement so feel before saying I am not listening you should read whom has posted what!
After much debate we have reached no defined conclusion here apart from saying to fold/call/reraise in this instance is acceptable.... so really its down to instinct and reads on the other players in the pot plus as Greg points out your mental state at the time.
After much debate we have reached no defined conclusion here apart from saying to fold/call/reraise in this instance is acceptable.... so really its down to instinct and reads on the other players in the pot plus as Greg points out your mental state at the time. Posted by waynecure
i think your problem is wayne is that you are to stubborn
"Greg I don't think anyone who folds here is playing well tbf.
Shoving pre can't be bad, and it stops you from making any mistakes. With specific reads flat calling can be more +EV sometimes."
Comments
Wayne you really should listen to this. So often people ask for advice and ignore the advice they are given. What is worse, they then post advice to lesser experienced players and get them into bad habits. In the heat of the moment I might have shoved the JJ, but when you look at the hand away from the table a flat call here is definately worth considering.
Plus Nick is replying to a post by tapeworm whom presented his arguement so feel before saying I am not listening you should read whom has posted what!
Now if you raise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K30RExWDBM
If im playing well and like a ooober nit, i fold.
If im playing like a semi scared nitbag, i flat call and hope i can check it down and/or avoid overcards.
If im feel like gambling, im all in.
All three options perfectly acceptable innit.
Dohhhhh, read up, he reshoved to isolate and XXX folded. tilt man showed AQ, and Wayne's hand held.
Shoving pre can't be bad, and it stops you from making any mistakes. With specific reads flat calling can be more +EV sometimes.
"Greg I don't think anyone who folds here is playing well tbf.
Shoving pre can't be bad, and it stops you from making any mistakes. With specific reads flat calling can be more +EV sometimes."
i think YBs quote pretty much sums it up