PLO Live cash hand - was I right?

BIGSHANN

Blinds .5/1 8 handed i have £160.  My hand 10h10s5h3c.  I am in cut off.  Pre limps round to me so I call. button makes it 4 to go, 5 callers incl. me. Flop 10cahqh.  sb pots to 24 fold to me.........

villian is fairly active and has a wide range - often takes the lead in pots.

1.  should I be calling pre?

2. what action should I take now?

3.  how many outs do I have?

please discuss I will post results later

DeucesLive

wouldn't ever get involved with that hand- you might have a pair, but there's so few outs and so few boards which you're ahead on, even if you set up.

As played I'd snap fold that board I think, you *might* have a live draw with the flush, but if he hasn't got broadway there I'm very, very surprised. You're drawing to flush (which might well not be good, he could easily be drawing to the J or K high flush too) or the house (pretty thin).

I could understand if you called, but if the players are any good- they'll shut up shop the second the board pairs, so you won't get any more, and if it doesn't- you're just throwing money away chasing. If you jam over the top of him, you're just going into a race in which you're always behind.

I think the big decision is preflop- there's much better hands to get involved with, I'd fold that in a blink. Only hands I'd play which aren't double suited would be AA/KK (perhaps) and multiple straightening cards (5678 etc). On that board, you have 7 outs IMO, and he may easily be holding some of them.

TommyD

Got to say I hate the call pre, both the limp and the call of the raise.  Bare set mining is awkward with bad aces let alone bad tens.  It's very tempting to get involved with so many limpers/callers in the pot but it can really lead to trouble unless you hit the stone cold nuts, and even then with so many callers and/or not quite deep thinking PLO players involved your equity may not be great.

As a result of your call pre you've given us a massive headache.  We have bottom set and a middle flush draw on a very textured board.  You say this player is active, but is he any good at PLO?  Is he more likely to be leading because he has a massive combo draw, the nut straight or top two thinking it's hold 'em?  Will he think a 9 high flush is good in a multi-way pot?  The problem is we don't know what we are looking for.  There's a decent chance KJ is out there somewhere, as well as the NFD.  The button and preflop raiser is behind you so an over set, especially on an Ace high board, could well be there.  I hate our spot and I think this is a fold.  There's a temptation to call looking to reassess the turn but this probably is a leak.  The only doubt in my mind that you should call is that the general standard of PLO live at this level is so bad you might be good but that just might be leveling myself into it.

In terms of outs, you have exactly one I would be happy to see.  The rest all just add even more grey hairs to my head.

BIGSHANN

thx for your views guys,  I will wait to see if anyone else has any views and post the result later today

Talon

  This is a great example of a hand that gets a lot of people into trouble especially newcomers to PLO. I can understand why you want to play it especially live where you see less hands than online but as a starting hand it is weak. So i can understand the limp but i am  suspect about the calling of a raise .

  The flop is probably about as bad as it can be for your hand because you have enough of it to make you think you are in a good situation but it means you could easily be drawing dead to a 1 outer at this point.The only partial saving grace about your hand is the presence of the 10h in your hand which makes your quads redraw live. Even if the person leading out is a serial bluffer and is very active with marginal to bad hands then i still can not justify calling this flop especially with the original raiser still to act because we could easily be asked for our entire stack on this flop and i am personally not prepared to get it all in on that board with bottom set and the third nut flush draw because i know that there will be much better opportunities arriving later.

  The hand that jumps out to me on that board is Ax Ax Kh Jh.This hand has the nuts and all the redraws and is only possible  to lose on that board with someone redrawing to quads.Obviously it does not mean that this hand is out there but it should be in the back of your mind that it is possible.

  So for me i agree with the others and snapfold and wait for a better opportunity because you only have a minimal amount invested and there is no reason to go all the way with this hand.

BIGSHANN

thx for your detailed thinking talon and tommy/deuces.

I agree with your thinking and it makes perfect sense.  But you all know that I repotted here!  I know the villain is not strong and polarised his hand to have kj in it with possibly 2 stagglers and no hearts ( mainly based on his lack of ability and reluctance to get involved pre flop.  He also quite often leads out here with nothing trying to take pot down.  I figure my heart draw was good and house draw and quad draw giving me 16 outs. Also thought that he may have air and insta fold.

I agree, I hated limping and calling raise pre and got myself into a really bad spot.  I know I should of snap folded on flop, but local knowledge and my overly aggressive streak kicked in, as per usual.  Must try harder.  

By the way, I read his hand correctly and I had all my draws live and missed the lot!  This also shows how soft my local cash PLO game is!

Thanks again. 

jakally

Fold to the limp, fold to the raise, fold now.

You are probs either way behind, or flipping, with the button still to act, and only £4 invested from £160.

SmoothDude

I'm not a fan of this hand at all and multi-handed it's going to kill you so many times.

The flop is exactly the kind of flop you don't want to see as the likely result of all those limpers is multi high cards. Although to be fair there's a strong chance that people have limped with middle pairs, or middle connectors if it's a really loose game.

That said  you seemed to have a pretty good read on the table so it's not as bad as it may at first seem. Even the post flop is ok-ish if you're there to show the guy he can't bully you and you have the 16 outs, plus a further 3 on the river.