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Top pair, good kicker, facing raise after value betting river....20nl.....

DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
edited February 2011 in The Poker Clinic

Table background : Greghogg is a fish.

Now onto the hand..............

Playing this level as there were only 2x30nl tables open, so no detailed reads on this villain, although I think he's pretty solid and a winning player at this level.

His opening range is solid.

He wouldn't check behind on the flop with AK/AQ/AJ I don't think, so I think he has suited picture cards, 99, TT,JJ,QQ,KK or a set of aces.......

I bet pot on the turn, I think he will call a bet with pocket pairs, and KJ, KQ hands.....

Obviously value betting the river, looking for an optimistic call, and he raises..........

At this point I think he can only do this with KK and AA...........as he would have bet AK on the flop.

Is this just a standard bet/fold spot?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
GREGHOGG Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £20.06
DOHHHHHHH Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £48.98
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
     
xxxRaise  £0.80 £1.10 £21.29
spdbrkr Fold     
BAGGPUSS Fold     
GREGHOGG Fold     
DOHHHHHHH Call  £0.60 £1.70 £48.38
Flop
   
  • A
  • 4
  • 7
     
DOHHHHHHH Check     
xxx Check     
Turn
   
  • K
     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £2.00 £3.70 £46.38
xxxCall  £2.00 £5.70 £19.29
River
   
  • 3
     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £3.00 £8.70 £43.38
xxxRaise  £8.60 £17.30 £10.69
DOHHHHHHH
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Comments

  • CLIOKIDCLIOKID Member Posts: 783
    edited February 2011
    Looks like a bet fold is correct here yep.

    I think he has KK a huge amount of the time.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011

    I called KK in the chatbox......as my timer was running down.....

    he typed "lol"

    Is this a tell? does it mean he had it???
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited February 2011
    I know who the villain is, its the same guy who stacked me with a better flush sigh.

    Yes its a fold vs that villain imo! Although the way i was playing last night i woulda prob stacked off lol!
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited February 2011
    It doesnt look good does it.

    Hmmm, i maybe just flat the river.

    Now the reason for this is exactly what greg says above has given me information. The opponent must be a winning reg on an off night????

    So i rekon he is repping AK confident yoll barrel on the turn or KK the only thing that takes me away from Kings is he flats your bet on the turn but again he may do this because you might barrel again on the river. Now the river doesnt help anyone unless he has 25 or a hero call with 33 on turn.

    So for this reason i flat on the river, reasoning is if he has what he is repping i lose £5.60 more, if he doesnt and we raise he snap folds, and if he does we lose £15 more.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011

    Don the options aren't call or raise.....

    they are call or fold......

    You don't consider a fold?

    What makes you think the villain is having an off night? - Gregs comment referred to himself having an off night (another 1), not the villain.....
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Top pair, good kicker, facing raise after value betting river....20nl.....:
    Don the options aren't call or raise..... they are call or fold...... You don't consider a fold? What makes you think the villain is having an off night? - Gregs comment referred to himself having an off night (another 1), not the villain.....
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    oh i misread gregs comment.

    Yea your right for that reason.

    Im lured towards calling still as we do still beat alot. Youve got to remember we still didnt bet the flop so are we really repping an ace ourseleves? Like you said its an odd spot,

    Raises pre, Checked flop, called turn, raised river,

    This is a play that doesnt really make sense to me. And id make my desision playing the hand back in my head.

    So therefore i still lure towards calling.
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited February 2011
    i would much prefer it if you 2 b u g g e r off and pl;ay at your own levels. without knowing who it is (clue please) i think its got ak written all over it. now like i say toodle off and go play some nl30/50!!!!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Top pair, good kicker, facing raise after value betting river....20nl.....:
    In Response to Re: Top pair, good kicker, facing raise after value betting river....20nl..... : oh i misread gregs comment. Yea your right for that reason. Im lured towards calling still as we do still beat alot. Youve got to remember we still didnt bet the flop so are we really repping an ace ourseleves? Like you said its an odd spot, Raises pre, Checked flop, called turn, raised river, This is a play that doesnt really make sense to me. And id make my desision playing the hand back in my head. So therefore i still lure towards calling.
    Posted by The_Don90
    What value hands would he raise the river with that we can beat?
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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited February 2011

    depends who the villain is a lot.  against most players i dont see many hands you beat. 
    if youre worrying about kk or aa i think the value looks very thin

    does he ever have 56 here?

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Top pair, good kicker, facing raise after value betting river....20nl.....:
    depends who the villain is a lot.  against most players i dont see many hands you beat.  if youre worrying about kk or aa i think the value looks very thin does he ever have 56 here?
    Posted by huuuuume
    Absolutely not, he never opens this from early position.

    His range when he flats the turn is alot wider than AA/KK....

    I guess there are some weaker aces there, AJs maybe, and AQ, but I think it's mainly 99/TT/JJ/QQ...KQs and KJs......as well as AA and KK.....and theres no way he'd be floating the turn to bluff the river with complete air.

    So I think a small value bet can get called by alot of hands in that range on the river, given the action so far in the hand. 

    When he raises it obviously narrows right down to AA/KK AK(which I can rule out as he bets the flop with that hand and raises turn) and bluffs - but I've never seen him make a stone cold bluff, he's not the type of player to spa zz and turn TT/JJ/QQ into a bluff......

    I really couldn't see past AA/KK......


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  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop Member Posts: 3,795
    edited February 2011
    I would call and see him turn over kk ;)
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  • AJW1976AJW1976 Member Posts: 295
    edited February 2011
    could have had 56 offsuit? but then again maybe let me say he had AA ... ONLy explanation for check on flop. xx
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  • murray69murray69 Member Posts: 436
    edited February 2011
    i think he had 7 7 :/
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