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Squeezing/limpers

dtm75dtm75 Member Posts: 263
edited February 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Hi All,

Played in the £22 deepstack.  Have not played this main event before.  But after about 90 mins with 75/150 blinds, I was getting a bit peeved with the limpfest it had become...

Woke up with the massive hand that is 33 on the button, and there were the normal 3 limpers.  I shove my 3.5k stack and of course get looked up by 88s from the cut-off.

Is there anyway to stop the serial limping?  Perhaps I shouldn't let it bother me... 

Thoughts?  And I realise my shove is pretty terrible play.  I just lost my head for a moment... would imagine 10s of better spots to steal some blinds

Dan
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited February 2011
    persnally i just sit back and wait( bit more than 33 mind). also i have found if you make a comment in chat box it will stop 1 or2 of them
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited February 2011
    I know what you mean about limpers but I generally don't like shoving with a low pair as most fish can call off with any sort of over cards and you don't really need a race with over 25 BB's. If your gonna do it wait till you have somthing like AK, AQ or pairs like 99+ as these fair better against limpers imo.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011
    I don't mind the shove here, your stack is about the perfect size.

    I would also jam AA, KK, QQ, AK in this situation too.
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  • tiote22tiote22 Member Posts: 24
    edited February 2011
    Why do you not want people to limp?!
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  • penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,095
    edited February 2011
    IMO with that stack size I wouldnt be shoving.. Standard 3bb or better 4bb raise with intention of cbetting slows them down! Particularly as you have position.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers:
    IMO with that stack size I wouldnt be shoving.. Standard 3bb or better 4bb raise with intention of cbetting slows them down! Particularly as you have position.
    Posted by penguin7
    yea i agree with this.


    Penguin, how would you rate it if we're on BB with says 55 same stack with similar limpers ?
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  • penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,095
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers:
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers : yea i agree with this. Penguin, how would you rate it if we're on BB with says 55 same stack with similar limpers ?
    Posted by The_Don90
    If they really are serial limpers, does the exact hand really matter ? Suited connectors are just as good as a small medium pocket pair and I would play them the same way. In both cases you are not just playing to hit the flop. With your solid preflop raise, an ace or king on the flop is ideal to represent with a strong cbet. Few limping hands are likely to call, it would certainly take care of 88 !
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers:
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers : If they really are serial limpers, does the exact hand really matter ? Suited connectors are just as good as a small medium pocket pair and I would play them the same way. In both cases you are not just playing to hit the flop. With your solid preflop raise, an ace or king on the flop is ideal to represent with a strong cbet . Few limping hands are likely to call, it would certainly take care of 88 !
    Posted by penguin7
    thanks penguin, I've been doing more shove squeezes in the BB against limpers recently hense why i asked.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011
    Pocket 3s on the button with 23xbb, and 3 limpers in front....

    I don't like a standard 3 or 4x raise at all here......I think of the 4 options, that's probably the worst.

    Assuming the limpers in front (and blinds behind) have similar or bigger stacks than us....The best plays in order are.....


    1st - Limp
    2nd - Fold
    3rd - Shove
    4th - 3/4x raise

    Imo.....
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  • pryce6pryce6 Member Posts: 1,058
    edited February 2011
    No offence Penguin but I've never seen you play anything other than a premium so the thought of you raising here with 3s makes me lol.

    + I actually agree with Doh, i hate isolating with 3s here, shoving can never be bad though (depending on image). Personally I probably wouldn't as I get called way too light now and 23bb isn't that much in Double stack as nearly everyone has chips.

    If you want to play the hand I actually don't mind set mining either.
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  • penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,095
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers:
    Pocket 3s on the button with 23xbb, and 3 limpers in front.... I don't like a standard 3 or 4x raise at all here......I think of the 4 options, that's probably the worst. Assuming the limpers in front (and blinds behind) have similar or bigger stacks than us....The best plays in order are..... 1st - Limp 2nd - Fold 3rd - Shove 4th - 3/4x raise Imo.....
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Sometimes its good to disagree  !!
    In normal play I would put it in the following order...Fold, raise,limp,shove.
    To limp is just setmining, you will be folding after the flop 75% of the time. Would it be right in a cash game? In tournies you can bleed away chips too easily chasing sets. Either fold it or play it, if you raise you may well  take it down preflop, and you still have the chance of hitting your set and getting paid off better. And as already said, many missed flops will give the opportunity of a cbet few limping hands can call.

    I take your point that there are still the blinds to act behind, but that is another reason not to limp, you will be folding if they raise.

    And I just hate the shove, if called you are going to be lucky to be racing. or totally dominated.

    So normally I think its a fold ,but the question was about stopping the serial limpers. This is a good opportunity to do that, the hand isnt that important, position is.

    GL JJ... did you see that cooler I posted on my cash thread? Sick or what ?
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  • penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,095
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers:
    No offence Penguin but I've never seen you play anything other than a premium so the thought of you raising here with 3s makes me lol. + I actually agree with Doh, i hate isolating with 3s here, shoving can never be bad though (depending on image). Personally I probably wouldn't as I get called way too light now and 23bb isn't that much in Double stack as nearly everyone has chips. If you want to play the hand I actually don't mind set mining either.
    Posted by pryce6
    Glad that someone has a tight image of me. Good luck in the doublestack tonight, Nick !
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011

    Yeh I saw the cooler......

    KK v AA in cash, assuming ur not mega deep, is just something you accept you're gonna get dealt occasionally.

    If you keep playing, you'll have the AA in the coup as often as you get the KK, and you'll suck out with the KK as much as you get sucked out on when you're opponent has the KK! lol.

    In short, it was unlucky, but standard, hands like those aren't the ones that are gonna determine your profit/loss.

    I'll be back on the tables tonight, hopefully I can do alot better than Tues. Cya there, unless you win the biggie, then I'll come watch u at 200nl instead ;)
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited February 2011
    I hate tables full of serial limpers too, but I still think the limp is the best play here. It's only going to cost 4.3% of your stack to give yourself a 11.8% of flopping a set and taking down a big multi-way pot. If you raise you may well get 2 or more callers, then 88.2% of the time you're going to miss your set and almost certainly have to fold. 23BB is too deep to open shove with 33 IMO, I'll start considering it from 18BB and below.

    Here's my preference;

    1. limp
    2. fold
    3. raise (then fold to a 3 bet, or shove at any flop with only 1 caller due to the weak/passive nature of the table, or check/fold with 2 or more callers)
    4. shove pre
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  • penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,095
    edited February 2011
    I love this. We get a post moaning about serial limpers and people whose opinions I respect are saying its a limp. If you cant beat them join them ! After you have become the fourth limper from the button, what are the blinds going to do with any reasonable hand ?
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  • thejudge10thejudge10 Member Posts: 465
    edited February 2011
    have to agree limp,

    1 limp
    2 raise
    3 fold
    4 shove.

     i have learnt thro my ever so limited expierence,shoving with small to mid pairs,can only lead to disaster,your only gettin called by 2 types of hands,1 in which your behind,2 overcards 50/50.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2011

    The op asks a generalised question, then follows it with a specific hand/example....

    It's impossible to answer such a general question, it would take 20 pages of A4.

    It's like asking "how do I deal with an aggressive player?".....

    In the hand he gave, I think limping is clearly best, the implied odds are as good as you're gonna get playing a 23xbb stack, and if the blinds jam behind, it's an easy fold and we've lost 4% of our stack. 
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited February 2011
    i think limping 33 in a multiway pot on the button is pretty standard in fact its a perfect spot
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited February 2011
    In Response to Re: Squeezing/limpers:
    I love this. We get a post moaning about serial limpers and people whose opinions I respect are saying its a limp. If you cant beat them join them ! After you have become the fourth limper from the button, what are the blinds going to do with any reasonable hand ?
    Posted by penguin7
    At most tables you'd have a very good point, but the OP has said this table is a limp-fest, so it's fairly safe to assume the blinds haven't been shoving over limpers (if they were the limping would have stopped). If we're sitting with 5 weak/tight opponents we have a very good chance of seeing that flop in position for a price of just 1BB.
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  • penguin7penguin7 Member Posts: 1,095
    edited February 2011

    Re: Check this out lol

    posted at 24/2/2011 1:48 PM GMT on SkyPoker.com
    		 
    Posts: 7131
    First: 17/6/2009
    Last: 24/2/2011

    Limping in becomes an increasingly worse play as you become more short stacked.

    Limping with 100xbb can be fine in alot of situations.

    Limping with 50xbb, can be fine in some situations.

    Limping with 20xbb is almost never going to be a good idea.

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