Top set facing river shove

huuuuume

SALSEROSmall blind £0.15£0.15£30.80tatoheadBig blind £0.30£0.45£29.70 Your hole cardsAA   miknmoxCall £0.30£0.75£42.75huuuuumeRaise £1.50£2.25£41.61Ozzie08Fold    YUPSFold    SALSEROCall £1.35£3.60£29.45tatoheadFold    miknmoxCall £1.20£4.80£41.55Flop  410K   SALSEROCheck    miknmoxCheck    huuuuumeBet £2.40£7.20£39.21SALSEROFold    miknmoxCall £2.40£9.60£39.15Turn  A   miknmoxCheck    huuuuumeBet £4.50£14.10£34.71miknmoxCall £4.50£18.60£34.65River  5   miknmoxAll-in £34.65£53.25£0.00

opponent is a fish.  limp calls all sorts of garbage but would definitely raise QJ.
does he have the flush?
do we fold?

The_Don90

why the hand is played i think we can rule out the flush, QJ is my only worry here.

I call but then i usually do to big massive overbets and get stacked lol

The_Don90

why the hand is played i think we can rule out the flush, QJ is my only worry here.

I call but then i usually do to big massive overbets and get stacked lol

CLIOKID

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove:

why the hand is played i think we can rule out the flush, QJ is my only worry here. I call but then i usually do to big massive overbets and get stacked lol
Posted by The_Don90

You can never rule out a flush here.

The villain could easily have Txdd.

Ugly spot.

I probably call but don't think it's a good call.

zing

sort your flop and turn sizing out

fold

ratedRKO

I would pretty much put in a pot sized bet on the flop, its multiway and your 4x raise pre has been called by couple of people so good chance you 1 of em will call as this flop is in callers range.

when called the pot is bigger and when you hit set on turn i would bet anywhere between 3/4 & pot. the river is tricky but with the pot being bigger than it is how you played it, i would call - im new to poker so dont think im good enough to lay down top set just yet lol. plus to be honest i would really struggle to place opponent on flush.

the river call may be bad advice, but i think you need to improve your bet sizing because your not getting max value for strong hands (obv i only getting this from this 1 hand lol)

jakally

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove:

I would pretty much put in a pot sized bet on the flop, 
Posted by ratedRKO

Problem with doing this with your value hands, is that you then need to bet the same amount with bluffs (unless you want to make it obvious when you have hit).

2/3 to 3/4 pot is fine on flop... and similar on the turn (which is obv now a bigger amount as the pot is bigger after the flop).

You really need to have seen this guy act a few times on the river to know what a river overbet means.

It often means they have 'it', but 'it' doesn't necessarily mean a flush or QJ, as he could be over valuing 2 pr / set, or just taking your bets as weak, and turning a weak draw / 1 pair hand, into a bluff.

Against a lot of opponents this is a fold, but you would just have to go with your gut with this guy.

ratedRKO

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove:

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove : Problem with doing this with your value hands, is that you then need to bet the same amount with bluffs (unless you want to make it obvious when you have hit). 2/3 to 3/4 pot is fine on flop... and similar on the turn (which is obv now a bigger amount as the pot is bigger after the flop). You really need to have seen this guy act a few times on the river to know what a river overbet means. It often means they have 'it', but 'it' doesn't necessarily mean a flush or QJ, as he could be over valuing 2 pr / set, or just taking your bets as weak, and turning a weak draw / 1 pair hand, into a bluff. Against a lot of opponents this is a fold, but you would just have to go with your gut with this guy.
Posted by jakally

yep i totally understand this mate. i am no way qualified to give advice but recently got into poker, & not long signed up here, its all new to me but find it fascinating.

ive posted my opinion on a couple of threads for my own benefit really so if what im saying is wrong hopefully people can point me in the right direction.

my thinking with this particular hand is the fact the pot is multiway, the stakes are low and im assuming alot of players only play for fun at these levels and possibly only play there cards - so if he flops top pair (which is in a callers range here) then my way of thinking is he will call so why not try and get more value? obv at higher levels this will be easily exploited if u bet big when u hit and small when u bluff.

ive read a couple of your posts and its clear u know what your talking about, ive posted my opinion on cliokids thread where he folds AA. ive asked the Q about raising turn (im sure its not good lol) but if u could have a look and give your thoughts that would be great!

jakally

Hey RKO.... keep posting, and don't worry about right or wrong.

The Poker Clinic is good because it often ends up with a number of opinions which show that there is more than one way to play the same situation profitably.

In this hand, it may be that your line gets a better result than the one I am suggesting.

However, poker is a game of deception, and by keeping consistent bet sizing for bluffs / value hands, you make it harder for your opponents to put you on a hand. In the long run, this should be profitable.

Will take a look at the other thread.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove:

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove : You can never rule out a flush here. The villain could easily have Txdd. Ugly spot. I probably call but don't think it's a good call.
Posted by CLIOKID

yea QJ diamonds is also possible.

Obviously our OP did say opponent is a fish so its possible but i think unlikley.

Imo They have QJ and spazzed out on the river.

LOL_RAISE

23dd ftw

DrSharp

It is a hard hand to get off. You say he is a fish so i probably call and then hide behind the sofa!

I personnally do see the flush as CLIO said with 10xdd. Its a massive overbet and i would call expecting QJ or the flush but i dont think i am letting this go from what you seem to be reading from the player. Tough call but one i would probably make.

leon621

i think a player like this could be slow playing a set here. at the same time im not ruling out 10 x dd. im also making the call here but would go all in on the turn as there are so many danger cards in the deck

pryce6

Unless I have reads I call

Wacko90

fold, you only have 3 of a kind theres hands there that beat trips

ratedRKO

In Response to Re: Top set facing river shove:

fold, you only have 3 of a kind theres hands there that beat trips
Posted by Wacko90

well he has top set. the only hands there to beat him is a backdoor flush or QJ there is also alot of hand combos/bluffs he beats

it seriously takes ALOT of discipline to lay down top set and many players are probably not able to do it (myself included) its very easy looking at a hand after and saying "yeah i shud of folded he always had qj" but in the heat of battle and the EXTREMLY FAST timebar on sky!!-which i found out for the first time tonight lol, most would call this.

hopefully as time goes by i get to a standard where i can lay down topset and maybe it is a the corect fold. what did the o/p do anyway?