In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : you do realise one of the main thing stopping winning palyers from playing on sky is because of no hud/hem Posted by LOL_RAISE
+ 1
The one thing that would kill all action on this site.
Ban HUD's, never introduce proper rakeback, change bizzare marketing strategy, never introduce $ or € tables or tournaments, make only certain changes to the software...
That is if you want the business to become more profitable and continue its upward trend of profitability. Or you can allow/introduce the above and begin a steady decline like every other online poker site.
LOl I realy should know this but can someone please tell me what huds stands for? thanks in advance Posted by NODEAL
HELLO no deal, Mr Peter!
I answered this already.
HUD= Heads Up Display
"Tracking Software" allows you to compile a personal database of your own hand history information if you play on 'other' sites that save your hhs to your computer whilst you play. This is all relatively simple and the sites acknowledge and allow for their use. Some websites try to actively 'data mine' poker sites so they can sell databases of hands but they are only a problem for these 'other' poker sites who shant be named.
HUD's are a tool that tracking software provides, on the sites that allow software you can be running your tracking software and importing your hhs straight into your database whilst you play. At the same time your application is aware of your poker client running and knows what tables you have open, it then overwrites numerical information near a players name (this information must be in your database already ldo so if you've not played with someone they wont have any on you). People think that by having these numbers you are suddenly told which buttons to press or something stupid. It's just a way of visualling seeing what you can mentally try to pay attention to as you play, it helps those who play a lot of tables whilst also helping the average player assess their own games and leaks etc.#
Much of the benefit of tracking software is away from the table and for analysing your own game and leaks.
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : HELLO no deal, Mr Peter! I answered this already. HUD= Heads Up Display "Tracking Software" allows you to compile a personal database of your own hand history information if you play on 'other' sites that save your hhs to your computer whilst you play. This is all relatively simple and the sites acknowledge and allow for their use. Some websites try to actively 'data mine' poker sites so they can sell databases of hands but they are only a problem for these 'other' poker sites who shant be named. HUD's are a tool that tracking software provides, on the sites that allow software you can be running your tracking software and importing your hhs straight into your database whilst you play. At the same time your application is aware of your poker client running and knows what tables you have open, it then overwrites numerical information near a players name (this information must be in your database already ldo so if you've not played with someone they wont have any on you). People think that by having these numbers you are suddenly told which buttons to press or something stupid. It's just a way of visualling seeing what you can mentally try to pay attention to as you play, it helps those who play a lot of tables whilst also helping the average player assess their own games and leaks etc.# Much of the benefit of tracking software is away from the table and for analysing your own game and leaks. Posted by beaneh
Chears your a gent, now I understand I hope they dont allow it because I realy just play on gut feeling at time of play, might make things more difficult maybe.
AJS It is also players like myself that would benefit because I could use HM to improve my game, using my own stats to leak find, looking at profitable/non profitable spots etc. As an analysis tool HM is staggeringly good, you may not have to work on your game, you have said enough that it appears success has come easy to you but as I've said before I am not so fortunate. The HUD would be of benefit for me because the number of tables I am currently limited to is determined by my ability to read players at the table, where as you have said you can read the table comfortably when 12 tabling. I can't recognise when a player is raising UTG, button stealing, defending his big blind or 3 betting out of the bb above expectation beyond 5/6 tables, on sky without software this is a feel thing and I'm not blessed with your natural talent, even Tikay appeared surprised in the studio by your ability to make these type of reads 12 tabling HUDless. A HUD would narrow the gap between players like you and the rest of us when multi-tabling, maybe that's more of an issue to you. End result I play no more than 6 tables, 4 mostly and Sky as a business lose out because I'm not 12 tabling, they also lose out because other players aren't either and there will eventually come a point when in order to increase my earn I'll be forced to move sites to where I can use a HUD. Before you come back telling me this site is soft, let me tell you what a coach I worked with a while back told me, there's plenty of fish on every site you just have to go looking for them. To be honest most nights the nl100 tables are reg dominated in the main, it's not like it was on here 18/24 months back when Glitter and G9 were the most prevalent high profile regs at the tables sitting amongst a group of unknowns. The site and the games are changing. Yes I see lol_raise's point “ the main thing stopping winning players from playing on sky is because of no hud/hem” but he's not losing is he and he wasn't here 12 months back, so no HUD hasn't stopped him joining has it, the cash player pool is so small on here that only another half dozen lol_raises will kill the tables. lolufold said when discussing the WSOP there was plenty of bad play from many of the internet kids during the tourney, having a HUD on its own doesn't make you a better player, does every player who buys HM instantly become a winner? As you say yourself the majority of fish don't want to improve they just want a leisurely game of poker, so they won't care if I've got HM/PT because looking for tools to improve their game is outside their thought process, they just want a game, not that I'd be telling them about it, now that's just plain stupid. Honestly how do you define a fish? Could it be that some of the players you refer to as depositing fish are actually learning the game trying to improve, a tool that if used properly can help these players can't be all bad can it, or are all fish just here for a game. 18 months back you'd call me a fish, no doubt from your “ I'll turn you into a depositing player when I have done with you” you still do, not all fish are happy just playing the game and depositing for your benefit. In closing yes I was out of line using the t*** word and I apologise for it, but you come across as arrogant, you did on TV and IMO you did in your opening post, maybe you need to look at that, there are plenty of better players out there, some are even better than you and they'll find Sky one day HUD or no HUD. It was you that typed in the chat box at the start of the SPT cash final "treating this as a freeroll, don't play live, don't play tourneys, not interested" or words to this effect, didn't turn the blue hoodie down thou did you fella. In the meantime I won't he running away from you if you turn up, I never have, so feel free to turn me into a depositing player. Posted by stien
Very good post and very interesting discussion all round. I am a microstakes player trying to improve and if tracking software was available I would use it for sure. However, I am quite happy that it is not available.
I would hold my hands up and admit that when it comes to the tools(huds) that are available now I could never use them the same as the younger guys who are more computer literate.
I may be wrong but where do we draw the line with computer programmes to help us in poker? If its ok to use such aides then we could argue that bots are ok because that is also another programme aid.
Next it will be live players taking small laptops to live tourneys and using them during live play and would end up with guys like me who are playing against opponents who bring themselves along with their best programmes they can muster.
It seems that the logical conclusion of this road must end up with software against software we poker players usually hold to thought that the skill of the player is vital to be a winning , I see what stien is trying to say but working on that principal I could argue that I wanted to play in mid level chess tourneys with top class software programmes to assist me because my opponents skill level was greater than mine, Im not saying your wrong stien because in all honesty it might just be me being behind the times here in whats acceptable now.
I would hold my hands up and admit that when it comes to the tools(huds) that are available now I could never use them the same as the younger guys who are more computer literate. I may be wrong but where do we draw the line with computer programmes to help us in poker? If its ok to use such aides then we could argue that bots are ok because that is also another programme aid. Next it will be live players taking small laptops to live tourneys and using them during live play and would end up with guys like me who are playing against opponents who bring themselves along with their best programmes they can muster. It seems that the logical conclusion of this road must end up with software against software we poker players usually hold to thought that the skill of the player is vital to be a winning , I see what stien is trying to say but working on that principal I could argue that I wanted to play in mid level chess tourneys with top class software programmes to assist me because my opponents skill level was greater than mine, Im not saying your wrong stien because in all honesty it might just be me being behind the times here in whats acceptable now. Posted by NODEAL
The software tracks your own hands, and from that you can do away from the table homework.
Considering the benefit of tracking software alone on 'other sites' :
Without a HUD they are relatively useless for in game situations, they come into their own for assessing your own game and plugging your leaks/seeing just how unlucky you have been getting with your premiums etc. Spending time away from the game with your dtabase can really improve your game and in the process you will start to improve against specific opponents whos play style you have been thinking about whilst doing your homework.
When HUDs are combined with the tracking software to overlay stats the end user can be overwhelemed with the amount of data that is at his fingertips. No part of the software does anything to even suggest what play to make you are just visually seeing in numerical form all of the things that you could pick up if you watched the games intently and or make a pen and paper note of all hand histories. In many instances players try and become reliant on those numbers which is a hinderance to them. You have also got to remember that if you have played 20 hands at a table the 'numbers' they will have on you will have very little 'statistical relevance' hence why I was saying that without a large sample (we're talking thousands of hands) they don't actually benefit that much.
Similar to what you said Pete with regards to chess and 'chess computers' now adays. The benefits in poker are similar to those in chess, away from the game using these programs can greatly improve a players skill in a much shorter time than would normally be expected. No one is suggesting that players should have access to things which can help them choose their strategy whilst they are playing, let alone let it make the decision for them. Bots are obviously a tez idea (because they are so hard to program in NLH) but also because what fun is there in that you cheating sobs?!
Next it will be live players taking small laptops to live tourneys and using them during live play and would end up with guys like me who are playing against opponents who bring themselves along with their best programmes they can muster. Posted by NODEAL
not sure what you mean, but I've seen many degens playing live cash games with a laptop on their lap multi tabling online at the same time!
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : not sure what you mean, but I've seen many degens playing live cash games with a laptop on their lap multi tabling online at the same time! Posted by pryce6
oi i'm not a degen just one tabling live tilts the **** out of me because it's so slow
Best thing about DTD was 1 table live cash, 1 laptop on small side table = 9x cash tables , 1 side table with food and cup of tea on.
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : The software tracks your own hands, and from that you can do away from the table homework. Considering the benefit of tracking software alone on 'other sites' : Without a HUD they are relatively useless for in game situations, they come into their own for assessing your own game and plugging your leaks/seeing just how unlucky you have been getting with your premiums etc. Spending time away from the game with your dtabase can really improve your game and in the process you will start to improve against specific opponents whos play style you have been thinking about whilst doing your homework. When HUDs are combined with the tracking software to overlay stats the end user can be overwhelemed with the amount of data that is at his fingertips. No part of the software does anything to even suggest what play to make you are just visually seeing in numerical form all of the things that you could pick up if you watched the games intently and or make a pen and paper note of all hand histories. In many instances players try and become reliant on those numbers which is a hinderance to them. You have also got to remember that if you have played 20 hands at a table the 'numbers' they will have on you will have very little 'statistical relevance' hence why I was saying that without a large sample (we're talking thousands of hands) they don't actually benefit that much. Similar to what you said Pete with regards to chess and 'chess computers' now adays. The benefits in poker are similar to those in chess, away from the game using these programs can greatly improve a players skill in a much shorter time than would normally be expected. No one is suggesting that players should have access to things which can help them choose their strategy whilst they are playing, let alone let it make the decision for them. Bots are obviously a tez idea (because they are so hard to program in NLH) but also because what fun is there in that you cheating sobs?! Posted by beaneh
Yeah as I said, I knew I would be a bit out of my depth on this issue probably because I still do math in my head and on paper and not on a calculator and held and still trying to hold to the opinion that using a calculator in a maths exam is somehow wrong(but its allowed) )one day I might have to accept it, but for the moment im not quiet ready to accept it.
My understanding of the software is however a bit clearer now, Its like a big fat Filofax, only its in software.
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : The software tracks your own hands, and from that you can do away from the table homework. Considering the benefit of tracking software alone on 'other sites' : Without a HUD they are relatively useless for in game situations, they come into their own for assessing your own game and plugging your leaks/seeing just how unlucky you have been getting with your premiums etc. Spending time away from the game with your dtabase can really improve your game and in the process you will start to improve against specific opponents whos play style you have been thinking about whilst doing your homework. When HUDs are combined with the tracking software to overlay stats the end user can be overwhelemed with the amount of data that is at his fingertips. No part of the software does anything to even suggest what play to make you are just visually seeing in numerical form all of the things that you could pick up if you watched the games intently and or make a pen and paper note of all hand histories. In many instances players try and become reliant on those numbers which is a hinderance to them. You have also got to remember that if you have played 20 hands at a table the 'numbers' they will have on you will have very little 'statistical relevance' hence why I was saying that without a large sample (we're talking thousands of hands) they don't actually benefit that much. Similar to what you said Pete with regards to chess and 'chess computers' now adays. The benefits in poker are similar to those in chess, away from the game using these programs can greatly improve a players skill in a much shorter time than would normally be expected. No one is suggesting that players should have access to things which can help them choose their strategy whilst they are playing, let alone let it make the decision for them. Bots are obviously a tez idea (because they are so hard to program in NLH) but also because what fun is there in that you cheating sobs?! Posted by beaneh
- They can be overwhelmed but these young whizz kids have been doing it for years, and soon learn to quickly pick out the info they are looking for
- The next point is debatable. If you logged on to your mates account on a site you had never played vs villains you had never played, but you were well versed in pt/hem/huds. Theres a raise and u reraise villain pf. He 4bets, you check his stats, and see ur mate has 100,000 hands on this guy and he 4bet folds pf 99% of the time. That in itself is telling me what play to make.
I know the situation is ridic, but just saying.
edit - I have said before, imo there is a fine line between huds and bots.
As for having software that tracks ur own play, leaks etc, great idea, but huds are ruining the game in general
My main point I am trying to make throughout this thread is in my experience, depositing players are put off spending their money on online poker when they find out about this software.
Any business needs people spending money so why would you want to put them off.
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : oi i'm not a degen just one tabling live tilts the **** out of me because it's so slow Best thing about DTD was 1 table live cash, 1 laptop on small side table = 9x cash tables , 1 side table with food and cup of tea on. Sweeeeeetness! Posted by beaneh
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : you do realise one of the main thing stopping winning palyers from playing on sky is because of no hud/hem Posted by LOL_RAISE
In Response to Re: No hud, better for you? : + 1 The one thing that would kill all action on this site. Posted by dantb10
Comments
The one thing that would kill all action on this site.
thanks in advance
I may be wrong but where do we draw the line with computer programmes to help us in poker?
If its ok to use such aides then we could argue that bots are ok because that is also another programme aid.
Next it will be live players taking small laptops to live tourneys and using them during live play and would end up with guys like me who are playing against opponents who bring themselves along with their best programmes they can muster.
It seems that the logical conclusion of this road must end up with software against software
we poker players usually hold to thought that the skill of the player is vital to be a winning ,
I see what stien is trying to say but working on that principal I could argue that I wanted to play in mid level chess tourneys with top class software programmes to assist me because my opponents skill level was greater than mine, Im not saying your wrong stien because in all honesty it might just be me being behind the times here in whats acceptable now.
My understanding of the software is however a bit clearer now, Its like a big fat Filofax, only its in software.
Any business needs people spending money so why would you want to put them off.