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Old hand New views

AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
edited March 2011 in The Poker Clinic
This is one of the most memorable hands I've ever played, interested to hear your views on it.  The site it happened on didnt have a forum like this.

6max $5/10.

Button.  Have 88, make it $32, no action behind, BB re raises to $85, I call.

I'm sat with around $1050, BB slightly more.  Sat at this table for a while, BB pretty tight, so am likely to fold on the flop to a high board.

8cJd10s.

He leads out for $85, something feels wrong I call.  Hoping to see a duece to make a big turn bet

8cjd10s10d.

BB takes his time then leads out for $190.

I call.

8cJd10s10d  4c.

For some reason I'm just not loving my hand, gut instict I guess.  He puts me allin, I call time then fold 8's full, telling him thats what I'm folding. 

I totally subscribe to the Phil Ivey perspective in this situation (which I'll post afterwards).

How do you play the river?
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  • ExLeper78ExLeper78 Member Posts: 42
    edited March 2011
    Ooo, that's a toughy... I'm 50/50 on this one. Most of the time I'd call, but you say he's a tight player so he could have JJ, TT - that makes it a good fold. Or, maybe he's got AA, KK, AK and and can't let them go... Maybe AJ? I'd say he's got AJ - two pair - and you should of called. Sometimes you just have to make a stand.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Old hand New views:
    Sat at this table for a while, BB pretty tight, so am likely to fold on the flop to a high board. 8cJd10s. He leads out for $85, something feels wrong I call. 
    Posted by AMYBR
    i lold at this point.  im def. calling
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  • silentbobsilentbob Member Posts: 2,137
    edited March 2011
    I'm not a great player by any stretch of the imagination but I'm never folding in this spot. 

    I've never played anywhere near these stakes but I don't understand why you'd call a 3 bet pre (presumably to hit your set, which you did), then call again on the turn when you house up only to fold on the river when a total brick lands. I would've thought that a spot like this is an easy stack off or maybe I'm a worse player than I thought. Either way I'm definitely doing my stack there.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Old hand New views:
    I'm not a great player by any stretch of the imagination but I'm never folding in this spot.  I've never played anywhere near these stakes but I don't understand why you'd call a 3 bet pre (presumably to hit your set, which you did), then call again on the turn when you house up only to fold on the river when a total brick lands. I would've thought that a spot like this is an easy stack off or maybe I'm a worse player than I thought. Either way I'm definitely doing my stack there.
    Posted by silentbob

    Yeah its a good point about calling the turn folding the river.  I'never folding the 8's to that size bet in a deep stack cash game.

    I strongly put him on J's,  so good shout Leper. 

    The action on the river compounds my initial read on the hand, so although its not great to call the turn fold the river the additional street/bet gave me the needed info, based on bet/bet size.

    Thankfully he kindly showed me his J's full after my chat box speech and lengthy decision time :)
     
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited March 2011
    fold pre. or sit out.

    folding river is awful without knowing what colour underwear villain is wearing.


    love your threads though. 
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    fold 8's pre in a deep stack cash game?  seriously??

    Never happening for that bet size.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited March 2011
    Fold pre if you are going to fold post.

    you cant flop a set 100bb deep in a 3 bet pot and fold it's awful.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    99% of the time I agree with you and wouldnt even think to argue.  But if your going to ignore all the info plus your strong gut feeling in any hand, what kind of poker player are you? Yes, mostly your right I never fold here, but it just screamed J's

    Just so you know, I enjoy your misplaced hostility and sarcasm also...
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited March 2011
    It's not like I post in just your threads and try and be rude, you can't put this guy on exclusively JJ therefore it's a call. 

    if you're going with your gut online then you'll be having mares all over the shop!
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    Again your right, 99.9% of the time you just have to play the math, definately cant put him on 10J, cant fold on the off chance that he has made quads either.

    But having played with him for awhile I knew he wasnt playing an overpair that way, nor a straight with the paired board.  You have a very very conservative player refusing to back down or believe he's behind.  How many hands does that leave??

    Again your very right.  As I origonally said, I subscribe to the Phil Ivey perspective:  Your so rarely behind that a fold is unprofitable in the long run, and prtety dumb.

    But does that mean on the exceptional occasion you should ignore your gut read, when its as strong as it was in this hand??  I fully agree with you on the whole, but this guy, this hand, this action, as strong as my hand is - it isnt strong enough.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited March 2011
    every thread i read from the op i think to myself he has to be on a wind up lol
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    Lol, am not sir!

    I used to be a whiner about being a loosing online player, I've decided to stop whining and pick my game apart.  Going through my HH and some of these juicy ones pop up so I like to get other peoples views on them.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Old hand New views:
    Lol, am not sir! I used to be a whiner about being a loosing online player, I've decided to stop whining and pick my game apart.  Going through my HH and some of these juicy ones pop up so I like to get other peoples views on them.
    Posted by AMYBR
    i bet the guy that had the jacks was not a nl10 reg lol, was he that nitty? what was his stats and over what sample and what were your stats on that session?
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    This one is from about a year ago on FT, I only have the HH + basic session stats to go with my obsessive sompulsive memory.  As I say, I'm never normally folding there.  He had been incredibly passive, combined with being the nit.  I just couldnt see how he plays the hand the way he did w/out J's.  Only other associated stats were on that session.  His VP 8% 12/3 w/l @ 6 max over 127, with a showdown win of 92%. 

    I was VP 33% 36/16 w/l 68% @ showdown over 183 (at the time of this hand).
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited March 2011
    if 36/16 is your VPIP & PFR you are simply playing too many hands
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited March 2011
    Just over that particular session, 6 max, very tight table, about 14months ago.
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  • TWRAMYEPTWRAMYEP Member Posts: 351
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Old hand New views:
    Fold pre if you are going to fold post. you cant flop a set 100bb deep in a 3 bet pot and fold it's awful.
    Posted by beaneh
    this
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited March 2011
    OMG this is crazy lol
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited March 2011
    In Response to Re: Old hand New views:
    if 36/16 is your VPIP & PFR you are simply playing too many hands
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    36/16 looks very fishy to me, not opening enough hands @6max and calling/limping to much, if the table is ok he can play 36/30 and be profitable imo, i think you need to be play like 21/17 plus on 6max what are your thoughts LOL_R?
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited March 2011
    13/10 is most optimal for me
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