In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : His river bet looks desperate. Its hard to know with no reads, but the pot is around 12k and he has shoved 20k. If he has a set surely he puts a value bet in of about 5-7k? I think he puts us on 7's - 9's maybe K10/Q10 and is trying to get us to fold. The trouble is we haven't asked any questions by flat calling and are showing massive weakness so not shoving/betting the river strongly is worse play than doing it with air. Posted by FlashFlush
we dont need to raise him for information we get it anyway by calling and see his next actions, by the time this hand gets to the river we have so much more information and get value from the hands he folds if we raised the flop
Thanks for the replies, well in the end I folded the river as felt I could get my money in better at some stage down the line but I asked him what he had and he sent me this PM..... Yep Flashy was right. Richard49 Small blind 150.00 150.00 4685.00 Ploppy33 Big blind 300.00 450.00 26965.00 Your hole cards 9 Q Dudeskin8 Raise 700.00 1150.00 21320.00 tiptaptoe Fold troggman Fold Richard49 Fold Ploppy33 Call 400.00 1550.00 26565.00 Flop 6 10 2 Ploppy33 Check Dudeskin8 Bet 900.00 2450.00 20420.00 Ploppy33 Raise 2450.00 4900.00 24115.00 Dudeskin8 Call 1550.00 6450.00 18870.00 Turn K Ploppy33 Bet 3333.00 9783.00 20782.00 Dudeskin8 Call 3333.00 13116.00 15537.00 River 3 Ploppy33 All-in 20782.00 33898.00 0.00 Dudeskin8 Fold Ploppy33 Muck Ploppy33 Win 13116.00 13116.00 Ploppy33 Return 20782.00 0.00 33898.00 Posted by Dudeskin8
no he wasnt right because he would of reraised the flop and villain folds, if he calls flop and turn then uses the information he got (which he says in his last post) he calls river and doubles up and plays perfectly
In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : we dont need to raise him for information we get it anyway by calling and see his next actions, by the time this hand gets to the river we have so much more information and get value from the hands he folds if we raised the flop Posted by N1CK
You don't get any information by calling. If he is strong he bets every street, if he is weak he bets every street.
As for your next post, the way the villain played on the flop he was clearly determined to bluff us off this hand. My original post said re-raise to 6k, we still have about 17k left I think so it looks like we can still fold. I'm sure the villain will then shove to try and get us to fold but we snap him off and fist pump when he turns over Q high.
In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : You don't get any information by calling. If he is strong he bets every street, if he is weak he bets every street. As for your next post, the way the villain played on the flop he was clearly determined to bluff us off this hand. My original post said re-raise to 6k, we still have about 17k left I think so it looks like we can still fold. I'm sure the villain will then shove to try and get us to fold but we snap him off and fist pump when he turns over Q high. Posted by FlashFlush
i disagree flash i think you get just as much info calling as raising, as for flop i think he gives up alot when we 3 bet also he can get it in with overplayed fd and sets too so which we dont have great equity over and that deep just seems really bad to me, i do respect your comments and opinions but i like to give my own thoughts and like to talk about hands/plays etc i want to improve my game as much as anyone else does
I agree with flash here, he can possibly have a set but i would be re-raising aiming to get it in. If he has a set bit of a cooler but surely u go with ur instincts as i would as thats usually correct.
1 thing i hate about this hand why flat with flush draw out there still? wiii lets give them a free card effectively thats why i would re-raise and re-assess
Calling can sometimes give us information but raising gives us more
The turn is where I'd look to pot commit myself to thehand, we have the A of diamonds, so even if thv turn is a diamond, we can re-draw on the river.
If the turn is a diamond, not many people can fire three shots with worse than AA here, wether it be for value, or as a bluff......not a made hand on the flop anyway.
........ so in position I think we can call again on almost any turn card (or raise on a blank), again I think call or raising on the turn would be ok, given the stacks, we can still convince him he has FE on the river by just flatting the turn,(get value from bluffs) and he can also slow down and let us check behind with hands that beat us also (get to a cheaper showdown when we're behind).
Think position is V important in this hand.
With the ace of diamonds I think calling down is the way to go.
I wanna be careful using this term, as I'm unsure about it, but if the turn was say the Q of diamonds, and villain pots the turn, and shoves a blank river......
Would you assume that his range is polarised to a bluff or the nuts? - For example he wouldn't bet again twice on the turn and river with a hand that beat us on the flop???
Or am I underestimating peoples ability to bet 3 streets for value with a set in siutations like this?
In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : i disagree flash i think you get just as much info calling as raising, as for flop i think he gives up alot when we 3 bet also he can get it in with overplayed fd and sets too so which we dont have great equity over and that deep just seems really bad to me, i do respect your comments and opinions but i like to give my own thoughts and like to talk about hands/plays etc i want to improve my game as much as anyone else does Posted by N1CK
Yeah its good to talk. There is always more than one way to play a hand and some1 elses view gives you angles you may not naturally go with.
Sorry if I snapped at you before, but lets face it you have rubbished my views a lot in the past and without reasoning why. Agree to disagree
Doing very well so far 7/32 and generally hoovering up most pots easily then get this spot against a bigger stack.... Richard49 Small blind 150.00 150.00 4685.00 X Big blind 300.00 450.00 26965.00 Your hole cards A A Dudeskin8 Raise 700.00 1150.00 21320.00 tiptaptoe Fold troggman Fold Richard49 Fold X Call 400.00 1550.00 26565.00 Flop 6 10 2 X Check Dudeskin8 Bet 900.00 2450.00 20420.00 X Raise 2450.00 4900.00 24115.00 Dudeskin8 Posted by Dudeskin8
Call the flop call/get it in on most turns. I'm not folding this hand on Sky, we has dem aces yo.
i been looking at this hand now for 10 mins and the more i look at it the more i think im going over the top of him on the flop. ob im ahead pre the flat leans me towards him not on a premium ( has a stack to bully if he wants). standard "c" bet from you, from his point of view a reraise here may take it down. if he had hit a set why would he reraise you??? so unless he has hit a lucky 2pair you must think you are still ahead. you know whats comming on turn and river so why not get your money in while your ahead and put a big descision on him. phil
Again thanks for some really in depth replies. I'd say this sort of hand only ever happens once a month at the level I play, £2.20 deepstack, so overall it's not a massive problem but it is interesting to see many good players having different views. I still feel if I could play it again I wouldn't do anything different as I seriously put him on the set or at least something that beat me, a 3 barrel air bluff didn't even enter my mind lol.
In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney: I agree w N1CK fwiw. Calling flop is best, unless we know the villain is a complete idiot I don't think we can get it in good enough on the flop. Posted by pryce6
I think calling flop with the intention of trapping is best rather than with the intention of folding our hand if he continues strongly.
Folding aces every time you get check raised and then led out into is bad if you ask me.
People like to bluff at these type of boards, "oh he has AK I'll get him off that no problem. Oh he's still calling...I'll shove he can't call me now.
We've underrepped out hand massively by flatting so to then give up on it later down the streets sucks imo when we've set this situation up by not 3-betting the flop.
Comments
As for your next post, the way the villain played on the flop he was clearly determined to bluff us off this hand. My original post said re-raise to 6k, we still have about 17k left I think so it looks like we can still fold. I'm sure the villain will then shove to try and get us to fold but we snap him off and fist pump when he turns over Q high.
1 thing i hate about this hand why flat with flush draw out there still? wiii lets give them a free card effectively thats why i would re-raise and re-assess
Calling can sometimes give us information but raising gives us more
Sorry if I snapped at you before, but lets face it you have rubbished my views a lot in the past and without reasoning why. Agree to disagree
In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:
I agree w N1CK fwiw. Calling flop is best, unless we know the villain is a complete idiot I don't think we can get it in good enough on the flop.
Posted by pryce6
I think calling flop with the intention of trapping is best rather than with the intention of folding our hand if he continues strongly.
Folding aces every time you get check raised and then led out into is bad if you ask me.
People like to bluff at these type of boards, "oh he has AK I'll get him off that no problem. Oh he's still calling...I'll shove he can't call me now.
We've underrepped out hand massively by flatting so to then give up on it later down the streets sucks imo when we've set this situation up by not 3-betting the flop.