thats why id just check call 3 streets Posted by LOL_RAISE
yeah I would rather do that than c/r turn. I wasn't saying I would c/r allin, but given Dohs description and his image to the villain it can never be bad to mix it up sometimes? When he pushes in a spot like this the last thing going through Ozzie's head is a set...
i think its fine considering we opened to 4x and the 3bet is on the small side (10x) 99 plays alot better postflop than say 22, we can flop more 4card straights/gutterballs and also have better equity vs his Ax/Kx bluff 3betting cards Posted by LOL_RAISE
ok cool makes sense, would you call with all pps here or would you have a cut off?
In Response to Re: Mid set oop against V good TAG reg in 3bet pot - How to get the money in? : ok thanks, if you miss your set whats the worse board you prepared to check call the flop with? Posted by N1CK
its player dependent, but against a TAG I'd be c/cing on most Jxx/Txx boards etc. and obv when we have an overpair still. Thats why I like c/cing better than c/ring here, because we rep a lot wider than just a set when we c/c the flop. As he's good we can assume he will be betting 3 streets with an overpair anyway.
Are you not worried that a Jack, king or ace could slow him down on the turn though?
When right now, there's not much at all stopping him from stacking off w/QQ-AA.
I did say earlier that he doesn't cbet AK/AQ here all the time, sometimes he does, sometimes he doesnt.....and if he cbets AK/AQ and gets a call, he's unlikely to put much more in the middle anyway without binking.
In Response to Re: Mid set oop against V good TAG reg in 3bet pot - How to get the money in? : its player dependent, but against a TAG I'd be c/cing on most Jxx/Txx boards etc. and obv when we have an overpair still. Thats why I like c/cing better than c/ring here, because we rep a lot wider than just a set when we c/c the flop. As he's good we can assume he will be betting 3 streets with an overpair anyway. Posted by yb
do you think most TAGS play pretty straight forward in 3 bet pots so if they cbet jxxx with AK they give up on a blank turn as it misses their range and its hard to rep and it wont change much that you call the c bet with?
ok jj, i have been playing ozzie for about a week now on 2/3 tables and i must say he has a) tightened his range pre and most def been getting out of the way post flop with too much action. i think he is playing more tables than norm 128 instead of 86 lol. slowly slowly catchy monkey i think with this hand mate. phil
c/c, c/c, c/c. Even if he doesnt bet the river it makes your range a lot stronger vs him in these spots and hes less likely to bluff you so you get cheaper showdowns.
i would donk bet here and get in on flop, cos its pretty dry ozzie and any half decent reg will think ur bluffing and re-raise u. if they have overpair they prob stack of no? also worse sets maybe 2 pairs?
c/c, c/c, c/c. Even if he doesnt bet the river it makes your range a lot stronger vs him in these spots and hes less likely to bluff you so you get cheaper showdowns. Posted by offshoot
why would you just c/c all 3 streets? just curious. arent you wanting to get the maximum when you hit such a big and disguised hand like a set? or are you suggesting this purely on the basis that if we get ourselves in the same position next time with a weaker hand you can get to showdown cheaper!? but then surely if he does fire the 3rd barrell it would be a better idea to ship it, then i presume we get his whole stack and maximise our profits, then if it happens next time he will most definately check behind to showdown scared of the same move.
In Response to Re: Mid set oop against V good TAG reg in 3bet pot - How to get the money in? : why would you just c/c all 3 streets? just curious. arent you wanting to get the maximum when you hit such a big and disguised hand like a set? or are you suggesting this purely on the basis that if we get ourselves in the same position next time with a weaker hand you can get to showdown cheaper!? but then surely if he does fire the 3rd barrell it would be a better idea to ship it, then i presume we get his whole stack and maximise our profits, then if it happens next time he will most definately check behind to showdown scared of the same move. cheers Hurst Posted by hurst05
when he fires the 3rd bet on the river it should be for stacks anyway if hes good, i really like this concept i think you get the best of everything vs a good thinking player
In Response to Re: Mid set oop against V good TAG reg in 3bet pot - How to get the money in? : why would you just c/c all 3 streets? just curious. arent you wanting to get the maximum when you hit such a big and disguised hand like a set? or are you suggesting this purely on the basis that if we get ourselves in the same position next time with a weaker hand you can get to showdown cheaper!? but then surely if he does fire the 3rd barrell it would be a better idea to ship it, then i presume we get his whole stack and maximise our profits, then if it happens next time he will most definately check behind to showdown scared of the same move. cheers Hurst Posted by hurst05
if we check call all the way i was assuming he would be shoving the river. Getting to showdown cheaper in the future is just an advantage of check calling but not the reason for doing it.
I like the C/C concept here. My only reservation with it is the villain will check back the river a lot of the time and that's normally the big bet we're trying to get. I would be tempted to lead the river (board dependant) but I can't deny the advantages of this villain falling off his chair when he checks back and you flip over a set
In Response to Re: Mid set oop against V good TAG reg in 3bet pot - How to get the money in? : if we have a set in a 3bet pot vs a good reg on this board it should be a given that we stack an overpair, so i would be trying to get the most value out of his non pair or weak pair hands so by calling we let him bluff and value town himself with Jx if you are going to raise the flop, i actually prefer minraising the flop rather than shoving Posted by LOL_RAISE
Dohhh thanks for the update on how it went, given what u said about villian it was a profitable push, Although I would have played it the same way LOL_Raise said, why is it profitable? given what you have said about villian I would reckon u have to give him these odds, he holds a high pair 60% of the time he holds trips 10% of the time probably less but just to make an easy calculation and he is bluffing high cards smaller pairs Jx hands all of what he will lay down after the push 30% of the time. So based on that the pot would be £43 So if we push and he calls with all overpair hands we win 60% x 92% = 55% we win 43 = £24 If we push and he calls with trips we win 10% x 96% = 10% we win 43 = £4.3 If we push and he folds all other hands we win £16.45 So pushing we would expect value giving those figures of £28.30 But calling to see if he will fire out again or when he hits u reckon he might fire out again 10% on a bluff, say he 3/4 pots then the pot is now £26.45 after which point if you call I think he is shutting down. If he hits his overpair 36% of the time u will probably get value of about the same figure 80% of the time and he is shutting down 20 % of the time So without going into the calculations we would expect to win £22 so pushing is the more profitable play against this particular villian
PS unlucky on the hand but according to the Math it was a +ve play
Comments
i would donk bet here and get in on flop, cos its pretty dry ozzie and any half decent reg will think ur bluffing and re-raise u. if they have overpair they prob stack of no? also worse sets maybe 2 pairs?
donk bet is good way to get paid i thought?
if we check call all the way i was assuming he would be shoving the river. Getting to showdown cheaper in the future is just an advantage of check calling but not the reason for doing it.
Although I would have played it the same way LOL_Raise said, why is it profitable? given what you have said about villian I would reckon u have to give him these odds, he holds a high pair 60% of the time he holds trips 10% of the time probably less but just to make an easy calculation and he is bluffing high cards smaller pairs Jx hands all of what he will lay down after the push 30% of the time.
So based on that the pot would be £43
So if we push and he calls with all overpair hands we win 60% x 92% = 55% we win 43 = £24
If we push and he calls with trips we win 10% x 96% = 10% we win 43 = £4.3
If we push and he folds all other hands we win £16.45
So pushing we would expect value giving those figures of £28.30
But calling to see if he will fire out again or when he hits u reckon he might fire out again 10% on a bluff, say he 3/4 pots then the pot is now £26.45 after which point if you call I think he is shutting down.
If he hits his overpair 36% of the time u will probably get value of about the same figure 80% of the time and he is shutting down 20 % of the time
So without going into the calculations we would expect to win £22 so pushing is the more profitable play against this particular villian
PS unlucky on the hand but according to the Math it was a +ve play