If you had ak hearts and 2 hearts on flop then u had nut flush redraw! I think you should play some cash on sky then post some hands so we can see them properly........... Posted by donkeyplop
Even with the download I find sky really laggy, have spoken to others and they have the same opinion. If I deposit £600 and play two bullets at MC300 will that appease?
you should take up Beaneh offer of coaching he can sweat you on mikogo and skype hear you thought process and see how you play and see were your going wrong, do like a 1 hour sweat and 1 hour chat and take it from there
But either way do you still believe that laying down top 2 with 4 to the nut flush is profitable over time? But either way do the math: guy raises me $131 bringing pot up to $300ish. I have to call $131 into $300 so I only need to be hitting the 26-32% range which I am with the 13 outs to make flush of end up with a bigger fullhouse (28%) unless he's holding AA/KK (then 19% with naked flush). But factor in the implied odds, likelyhood of folding river then just flatting the turn makes no sense. Pot would stand at around $430 going to the river, so if it bricks I'm not check folding a pot with $610 in (by the time he pushes) for $175 , holding top two on a non str non flush board, as it just isnt a profitable fold longterm Posted by AMYBR
firstly, just a nitpick but folding is never profitable becuase we never win !
calling 131 into 300 means we need to have 31% equity to breakeven assuming no further action
our hand has 29.5% equity vs a range of 22 and 66 only and we have $175 behind
even if he hero folds when we hit out flush and only stacks off when we hit our A or K we still make money
which means that calling turn to boat/flush up is +ev and fold when we miss
you gave all the working out as to that calling turn is ok but then said you dont want to c/f because your absolute hand strength his high yet your relative hand strength is low
I didnt say I didnt want to, I said I wouldn't be able to, to my mind calling off the $120 into $300, making it 420ish, leaving opponent $179 doesnt make alot of sense, as its not going to go check check at the river in any case. Again I ask how profitable is it long term to consistently fold top two, on an co -ordinated board at the river getting 4/1 only fearing a set?
I varied the % from 29.5 to 26 - 32% as the pot sizing wasnt exact.
Am I really so far off base here? Are you gentlemen seriously implying that you fold top two + 4 to nut flush at the turn here consistently? Or that you call turn fold river?
You know the outcome so being critical is easy, but you are priced to improve your hand at the turn even believing your opponent holds a low set.
To be honest I'm surprised to hear you say that, I'm trying to picture myself playing the hand live, the raise at the turn could be a lot of things, the turn A changes the texture of the board completely. A set would be high on my list of concerns, but it would be alongside AQ a suited A2/6.
Hand on my heart I dont think I ever play this hand differently, but if you really think this is such an easy hand to get away from at the turn or the river then I guess there are huge leaks in my game.
I dont think many people are getting away from the hand at the turn or especially the river. Say the river bricks a off suit 7 your seeing a board of
26KA7 (no flush) holding AK getting 4/1 at $179 into $610 (after his allin). This is never going to be an easy fold on the river, so why put yourself in a situation where your having to make the difficult call? Surely the prefferred play is to get it in on the turn, surely your more likely to be up against the inferior A far more often than the set, but even against the set you have enough equity in the hand to be getting it in at the turn?
I dont think this is a board you should too often be playing to scared on. I hear what you guys are saying, but without KNOWING your opponent has flopped the set (****, even with the low set) is folding the turn going to be that profitable overall? Folding at the first sign of resistance?
I dont want you to think I'm not listening to your input, I am. I'm listening pretty hard. But I have to put my thoughts out there too. If there is this huge blindspot it'll make it easier for you to pinpoint.
If you hadn't included the results in your post, you'd have seen we still said fold and then you might be less thinking it's us being results orientated and you might try and work out why we consider it to be a fold.
Nice catch . I do understand why you say fold, really I do. I would think long and hard live, I always do. I probably would come to the conclusion that given the action seen my opponents range is a set, I did infact put this in the opening post.
But even if I put him a set I STILL WOULDNT FOLD THE TURN, and i dont want to play OOP facing that bet, because I dont believe i'll fold the river anyway.
I really do understand why you say fold, your only being raised by a small range of hands there at the turn.. But you are crushing many of the hands that may raise you when the A hits, plus you do have the priced to redraw.
Against some players, i'd never fold to a turn raise, but against some you just can never continue.
now you want to start thinking wait a sec if I have to bet fold AK on this turn, I want that persons image so I can raise every turn and make the world of monies!
I am thinking less and less that you're on a level, especially with how thought out your replies are, I went to write a massive long post yesterday but it logged me out and I tilt quit. If I get some time again i'll re write it.
in future dont include results at any stage. they are of no importance. when you're playing and got to make the decision you dont know what they hold so dont tell people when you are asking for advice and constructive criticism.
Comments
Even with the download I find sky really laggy, have spoken to others and they have the same opinion. If I deposit £600 and play two bullets at MC300 will that appease?
calling 131 into 300 means we need to have 31% equity to breakeven assuming no further action
our hand has 29.5% equity vs a range of 22 and 66 only and we have $175 behind
even if he hero folds when we hit out flush and only stacks off when we hit our A or K we still make money
which means that calling turn to boat/flush up is +ev and fold when we miss
you gave all the working out as to that calling turn is ok but then said you dont want to c/f because your absolute hand strength his high yet your relative hand strength is low
I varied the % from 29.5 to 26 - 32% as the pot sizing wasnt exact.
Am I really so far off base here? Are you gentlemen seriously implying that you fold top two + 4 to nut flush at the turn here consistently? Or that you call turn fold river?
You know the outcome so being critical is easy, but you are priced to improve your hand at the turn even believing your opponent holds a low set.
Hand on my heart I dont think I ever play this hand differently, but if you really think this is such an easy hand to get away from at the turn or the river then I guess there are huge leaks in my game.
I dont think many people are getting away from the hand at the turn or especially the river. Say the river bricks a off suit 7 your seeing a board of
26KA7 (no flush) holding AK getting 4/1 at $179 into $610 (after his allin). This is never going to be an easy fold on the river, so why put yourself in a situation where your having to make the difficult call? Surely the prefferred play is to get it in on the turn, surely your more likely to be up against the inferior A far more often than the set, but even against the set you have enough equity in the hand to be getting it in at the turn?
I dont think this is a board you should too often be playing to scared on. I hear what you guys are saying, but without KNOWING your opponent has flopped the set (****, even with the low set) is folding the turn going to be that profitable overall? Folding at the first sign of resistance?
I dont want you to think I'm not listening to your input, I am. I'm listening pretty hard. But I have to put my thoughts out there too. If there is this huge blindspot it'll make it easier for you to pinpoint.
But even if I put him a set I STILL WOULDNT FOLD THE TURN, and i dont want to play OOP facing that bet, because I dont believe i'll fold the river anyway.
I really do understand why you say fold, your only being raised by a small range of hands there at the turn.. But you are crushing many of the hands that may raise you when the A hits, plus you do have the priced to redraw.
Thankyou for all your input, seriously.