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Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo

Chompy_imoChompy_imo Member Posts: 75
edited September 2009 in Poker Chat
Sky legend and occasional blogger Greg 'Hoggers' Hogg said he was thinking of starting a thread on minimum raising but I has beaten him to the punch innnit.
Min raising is WRONG, end of imo. It is a bad habit picked up mainly by online players and the standard on most sites would improve ten-fold if every player stopped doing it.
There is no hand at any stage of any tournament that warrants a min raise. So please stop. Thanks for listening...
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Comments

  • PiAnOpLaYaPiAnOpLaYa Member Posts: 554
    edited September 2009
    min re raise ok?
  • acebarry10acebarry10 Member Posts: 7,556
    edited September 2009
    Yo Chompy

    The question is, what does a min raise do? what it the point? I have to admit, when I have been min raised and have a decent hand (Have been known to do it without) I put in a nice strong re-raise, great to ask the question, get an answer back, then fold otherwise take them chips.
  • FlashFlushFlashFlush Member Posts: 4,494
    edited September 2009
    Min raising is great when you have the stone cold nuts... Min raise flop... they will NOT fold either call or re-raise, smooth call the re-raise, check the turn they will ship it in as you look weak, hmm i think ill call.. good game, nice hand unlucky take care...

     P.S i never min-raise PF
  • elsadogelsadog Member Posts: 5,677
    edited September 2009
    dangerous ploy though Flash. Last week I broke the faith, I had a nameless person going all-in hand after hand. Then with me in SB and him in BB I get AA. I call (same as min-raise to me) knowng that he will go all-in, and he does so I pounce. He had 72 and hit hit hit. I went out. Hit 'em hard, make 'em pay to play is the only way.
  • FlashFlushFlashFlush Member Posts: 4,494
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:
    dangerous ploy though Flash. Last week I broke the faith, I had a nameless person going all-in hand after hand. Then with me in SB and him in BB I get AA. I call (same as min-raise to me) knowng that he will go all-in, and he does so I pounce. He had 72 and hit hit hit. I went out. Hit 'em hard, make 'em pay to play is the only way.
    Posted by elsadog
     No i mean if you flop the stone cold nuts, no danger there cos u cant be beaten :D.. I think  I once flopped the nuts in 1984.... and iwas only born in 87
  • PiAnOpLaYaPiAnOpLaYa Member Posts: 554
    edited September 2009
    yer but i can remember getting it all in on the flopped nuts and losing to runner runner
  • PILLOWMANPILLOWMAN Member Posts: 1,165
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:
    Sky legend and occasional blogger Greg 'Hoggers' Hogg said he was thinking of starting a thread on minimum raising but I has beaten him to the punch innnit. Min raising is WRONG, end of imo. It is a bad habit picked up mainly by online players and the standard on most sites would improve ten-fold if every player stopped doing it. There is no hand at any stage of any tournament that warrants a min raise. So please stop. Thanks for listening...
    Posted by Chompy_imo
    do you get lots of players min raising into you chompy ? imo. 
  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited September 2009
    ok everyone folds and your are SB.  the BB is away.  what do you do :p

    also at the late stages then min raising is a good tactic OTB plus I also think that versus certain villians (ie me cos I'm a calling station) min raising with a rivered st8/flush is a sure fire way to get paid.


  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave Member Posts: 3,288
    edited September 2009
    Using dogmatic rules while playing poker is more wrong, imo ;)
  • Rubes375Rubes375 Member Posts: 61
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:
    Min raising is great when you have the stone cold nuts... Min raise flop... they will NOT fold either call or re-raise, smooth call the re-raise, check the turn they will ship it in as you look weak, hmm i think ill call.. good game, nice hand unlucky take care...  P.S i never min-raise PF
    Posted by FlashFlush
    Would possibly disagree, assuming you have the stone cold nuts your thought process is how to get all thier chips. This is then dependent on three things, size of pot, sack sizes and villian (style/range/did he hit etc). It then becomes more of a mathmatical sum to work out what they will call, flop, turn and river to get all the chips, based on the three variables.

    A min raise would likely (although not always) leave a larger bet on one of the other streets which may not get called (as players get better they wont shove with trash or top pair etc) and therefore you dont get all the chips.

    This is just my view - not a fan of the minraise as a rule
  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited September 2009
    Chompers, thanks for starting this thread m8

    I personally rarely min raise. However, i can understand certain situations where this could be the right play preflop imo

    1. If you are late on in a torney, and have AA or KK and are commiting the rest of your stack and/or your opponants stack to the pot... and are in late ish position.

    OR

    2. If you are late on in a tourney and you are a big stack, have postion with any 2 AND the blinds are weak (folding all the time)  Also you have to be able to fold to a reshove of course. If they flat call, a decent C bet could take it down. Never min raise a third of your stack and then fold to the reshove lol. Ive seen it happen!

    However, essentially, i agree with Chompers, constant min raising acheives nothing. However, where i differ from my opinion with Chompers is that i believe the occasional min raise can be a good tool to confuse your opponants in certain rare situations and thats all i would use it for personally...

    Let the debate continue...
  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:
    In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo :  No i mean if you flop the stone cold nuts, no danger there cos u cant be beaten :D.. I think  I once flopped the nuts in 1984.... and iwas only born in 87
    Posted by FlashFlush
    Lies, you flop the nuts every other hand:)
  • MereNoviceMereNovice Member Posts: 4,364
    edited September 2009
    In Response to Re: Min raising is ALWAYS wrong imo:
    Using dogmatic rules while playing poker is more wrong, imo ;)
    Posted by Sky_Dave
    Absolutely.

    There are several situations where a min raise can be used successfully.

  • daveydaveydaveydavey Member Posts: 217
    edited September 2009
    I use min raising when I have a read on my opponent. If they see min raising as strong/weak then use accordingly.

    People might not always fold but that's not the point, if you min raise bluff and then lead the turn/river then your super strong looking min raise might get them to fold on a later street.

    Each to their own..
  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan Member Posts: 2,756
    edited September 2009
    Personally, I think there is NOTHING wrong with min raising in the later stages of a (well-structured) tournament when the blinds are big and the average stack is low...

    1) Players with nothing (bar the ante) invested in the pot will still fold weak / mediocre hands.

    2) Players in the blinds will be tempted to call with mediocre / average holdings.  Great!  Chances are you've got them beat - and you'll be in position for the rest of the hand.

    3) If a player three-bets or shoves behind, you can get away from the hand relatively cheaply.

    Ideally, I think betting 2.4x / 2.5x is better than a min raise, but I think the key is consistency.  I see so many players 4x with JJ and then min raise with AA, thinking they're "enticing" their opponents into the pot.  But everyone smells the trap a mile off and folds!

  • KnackersYaKnackersYa Member Posts: 468
    edited September 2009
    My pet peev is the tiny bet into a big pot, e.g. a 30 raise into a pot of 1000 odd. Can I just say that THERE IS NO POINT DOING THIS. It's not value betting, it doesn't build the pot, all it does is make you look like a **** numpty. If you want to raise, at least make it meaningful.
  • JingleMaJingleMa Member Posts: 1,319
    edited September 2009

    This is then dependent on three things, size of pot, SACK SIZES and villian Posted by Rubes375

    Erm... think you're playing a different kind of poker there mate! 8- />
  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited September 2009
    i agree with davey davey, a min raise can be used POST flop, with a good degree of success against the right player at the right time. it can be used to induce a bet from an aggressive player moping up blinds who is looking for weakness. on the other hand it can be used against a good tight player with a dangerous flop ie paired board and an ace. the art of gambling i was once told was to win as much money with the least amount of risk to your own money, and the min raise def falls into this catergory. i agree must people use it way too much and ask to be hit by a much bigger raise, but to completly rule it out of your game COULD be seen as a bit narrow minded.
  • Chompy_imoChompy_imo Member Posts: 75
    edited September 2009
    "Ideally, I think betting 2.4x / 2.5x is better than a min raise, but I think the key is consistency.  I see so many players 4x with JJ and then min raise with AA, thinking they're "enticing" their opponents into the pot. But everyone smells the trap a mile off and folds!"

    This is a quality point Mr Avatar. The 2.5x raise is woefully under-used.
    My original point was not so much aimed at the brighter sparks what read this forum, rather the masses what get two pictures and don't know what to do with them.
    Here's what you don't do with them...min raise. Grrrrr.
  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited September 2009
    any more comments people? im not letting this go to page 2 obscurity so please post your views innit. Tikay that includes you please:)
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