Asking too much?

AMYBR

Playing £1/2 NLHE live. 

Backend of 5hour session.  Myself and 3 others sat 500+ BB's deep, 2 fairly latecomers to the table sat around 100 BB's deep.  The deep stacks I know pretty well, regs, solid game, not much on the latecomers.

One of the guys I dont now much about makes it £9 pre.  Two of the regs i know who are sat deep call, SB folds I see AcJc in the BB.  I call the £7 into £30.

Flop comes out 9c6c2d.

I check.  Initial raiser has about £150 behind.  As stated I dont really know much about him.  He leads £22 into £30.  Both the reg deepstacks call oddly, putting £96 in the pot.  Initial raiser + opener now has about £130 behind.  I dont see how he can fold an over pair/set or a strong draw ($118 by the time I call).  But I dont want to get into a raising war with the other two 500+BB deepstacks.  Because of this I make a min raise, knowing he'll jam or fold, hopefully forcing out the two deepstacks - as I still have the option to 4bet after showing strength with the min raise.  He insta jams on me putting £270 in the pot.

One deepstack calls, one deepstack folds.  I act like a big girl, decide I dont want to commit an extra 300 odd BB's to this pot just now, so just call.  I have to figure my deepstack reg friend has called with more than two napkins, probably isnt going to fold to the 4bet.  I call putting £500ish in the pot.
9c6c2d 3c.  I make the nuts at the turn.  I take my time, trying to put opponent on a hand.  The only hands that make sense are a set or inferior K high flush draw.  I lead out £280, trying to make it seem as though I'm betting the scared set.  Guy thinks for ages then fold two red A's face up.  Allin shorty shows Q9o.

Nice pot overall.  I just felt that against this opponent he'd be more suspicious of a check.  If He'd had a set or K's/Q's with the club I felt he'd peel to hit or fill up, but if we got to the river for free and it bricked he wouldnt pay.

Bet smaller there or just aim for two streets? 

Smitalos

Pre - Nice, you could make a case for squeezing, but with the shorty being unknown, plus with such a big raise pre you have to fold to a 4bet if he does stick it in on you, and the last thing you want to do is have him flat, the big stacks then flat, and you're playing a huge bloated pot out of position with AceJack. So i like the flat pre
Initial flop action - The shorties cbet shows strength, betting into 3 other callers means he should have at least top pair if not, better. With both big stacks just flatting, the hand now seems very bizarre, and with the nut flush draw you're in an odd spot. The minraise is okay in my opinion if you are hoping to do one of two things. 1) you think leader is not strong enough to 3bet shove, so you have the nut flush draw 4 way and have huge equity in the hand meaning it's massivley +EV for you if everyone puts in a huge amount of money on the flop. 2) when the shorty jams, you think that the big stacks arn't strong enough to come along too. Reason i say this is because when the shorty here does shove, and one of the deep stacks just flats, in my personal opinion (which is by no means right) you should shove. Why? Because if you miss on the turn, you are forced to check (unless you're trying a mini Stop+Go thing but that's super risky and fishy) and in which case the other guy can bet his entire range and put you in a horrible spot where you're probably not getting odds to call on what is just a draw with one card to come. I love a 4bet jam here when the big stack flats, because he's either got a set, or he'll have to fold. You can apply an FCUKtonne of pressure, and get his dead money in there going HU against the shorty.
Turn action - The problem with your bet here is that you're betting into a dry side pot, so any bet here looks pretty strong. However, you can't check and give a set or a two pair hand a free card, so betting is definitely correct in my opinion. I would have bet less, seeing as you don't have the nuts, and if the board does pair you could always get away from it on the river. I'd say around the £200 marker, give him really sexy odds and force him to call (drawing dead here). By the time the river hits, the pot will be so freakin' big he'll have to call off, and you scoop a ridiculously sized pot.

Hope that wasn't too boring/long, felt like a long detailed post was better than a short and brief effortless one. GL live and at the tables man,
Cheers,
Carlos Smitalos

AMYBR

Not boring at all bud ty.  Everything you say is true.

Only reason I didnt get to active against opponent on the flop was we were similary stacked at around 500+ BB deep each.  We were winding down the last 20 minutes of play after being sat for around 5 hours and over committing and missing there would have made the nights efforts utterly fruitless.  I hate driving home feeling totally blurgh

Had it been earlier or for non stacks pot I think I would have 4bet.  Your very right in what you say about being left in a nasty spot if any card but a club hits the turn, Knowing that an A or J 1pr still isnt going to give me the winner.

On the flop the 120BB stack didnt really concern me.  I was happy to risk 15ish% of stack against whatever he was holding, but I really didnt want to drag the other two gents to the turn.  I wouldnt say they were uber nits, but I couldnt see them calling a flop bet, min, jam with all but a slim range.  Guy did take a very odd line with A's there though.  Have to figure he gambled a slow play for stacks with the game winding down.

I had been thinking that checking the turn would have got a pot sized bet called at the river.  But commiting opponent with the smaller bet disguised as a probe may have commited him, your right.

I had thought he may have KcQc, 10c8c or top set while in the hand

Smitalos

Totally agree with you there too man
I know some people will say that it doesn't matter whether it's the start or the end of the night for a decision, but no-one wants to play for 1000BB stacks after a long night of grinding, and even though i guess i'm in the bracket of "new internet youngsters" i'd 100% agree with you there. Nothing worse than working hard to build a big stack and then see it vanish in one hand. I think if we're playing 1p/2p, 4bet every day of the week, but seeing as it's 500BB at £1/£2, a flat is perfectly fine in an attempt to lower variance and take the line with less swings. It's like at the end of a tournament where people do deals. It may not be as profitable to deal for the better players, but taking a line that balances the big swings is widely accepted nowadays, and i would agree with ya here Only thing i would say is that if we don't want to play for stacks, maybe even just flat the flop? Just because we 'can' force people out doesn't mean we have to. Is it a bad thing if we let 3 other people see the turn for no extra charge? Not really, with a draw that is. With a made hand, yes, but with a draw having a lot of people in doesn't really affect your hand here, coz you'll either make the nuts or miss completely, and even if the turn goes bet call call you'll still be getting great pot odds to peel one more. Nice post anyway and don't have too much wrong with the line too, very interesting spot for sure. Hope the responses were okay, joined the site yesterday so forgive me if i'm a bit of a 'noob' :P gl at the tables, may you bink many more nut flushes sir!
Cheers,
Carlos Smitalos