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should i be betting more on the turn and the river?

pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Welly1Small blind£0.15£0.15£16.56latics-fanBig blind£0.30£0.45£28.68 Your hole cardshttps://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">Jhttps://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">A   pod1Raise£0.90£1.35£28.35tallboyFoldCRAZYC1985Foldhttps://www.skypoker.com/img/site/hhdealer.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: transparent; background-position: 100% 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; margin: 0px" class="dealer">marksmit15FoldWelly1Foldlatics-fanCall£0.60£1.95£28.08Flop  
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">6
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">10
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="club">3
   latics-fanCheckpod1Bet£1.46£3.41£26.89latics-fanRaise£2.92£6.33£25.16pod1Call£1.46£7.79£25.43Turn  
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">7
   latics-fanCheckpod1Bet£3.90£11.69£21.53latics-fanCall£3.90£15.59£21.26River  
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="club">A
   latics-fanCheckpod1Bet£7.80£23.39£13.73latics-fanCall£7.80£31.19£13.46pod1Show
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">J
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="diamond">A
latics-fanMuck
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/heart.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="heart">6
  • https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/heart.gif'); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: #ffffff; display: block; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border-width: 1px; border-color: #9bc3e5; border-style: solid" class="heart">10
pod1WinFlush to the Ace£29.63£43.36
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2011
    cant read that hand history
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited April 2011
    me either lol

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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited April 2011
    Welly1 Small blind  £0.15 £0.15 £16.56
    latics-fan Big blind  £0.30 £0.45 £28.68
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • A
    		     
    pod1 Raise  £0.90 £1.35 £28.35
    tallboy Fold     
    CRAZYC1985 Fold     
    marksmit15 Fold     
    Welly1 Fold     
    latics-fan Call  £0.60 £1.95 £28.08
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • 10
    • 3
    		     
    latics-fan Check     
    pod1 Bet  £1.46 £3.41 £26.89
    latics-fan Raise  £2.92 £6.33 £25.16
    pod1 Call  £1.46 £7.79 £25.43
    Turn
       
    • 7
    		     
    latics-fan Check     
    pod1 Bet  £3.90 £11.69 £21.53
    latics-fan Call  £3.90 £15.59 £21.26
    River
       
    • A
    		     
    latics-fan Check     
    pod1 Bet  £7.80 £23.39 £13.73
    latics-fan Call  £7.80 £31.19 £13.46
    pod1 Show
    • J
    • A
    		   
    latics-fan Muck
    • 6
    • 10
    		   
    pod1 Win Flush to the Ace £29.63  
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited April 2011
    re-raise on the flop, 2 overs and the nut flush draw = THE NUTZ !!!
    As played, bet more on the turn, and bet more on the river! 
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2011

    like the flop flat given odds

    bet around 5.50-6 on turn shove river. People like to call, assume they will until you know otherwise

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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited April 2011
    Really? What if the turn brings a blank? Trying to get it in on the flop when he's showing aggression and you probably have 15 outs is the best thing to do with 100BB. 
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited April 2011
    Half bet on turn IP.......please no.
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  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:
    like the flop flat given odds bet around 5.50-6 on turn shove river. People like to call, assume they will until you know otherwise
    Posted by grantorino
    THIS ^^^^

    Perhaps just a bit above £6 but in that range so you can get it in on the River and ship all his moniez!! 
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited April 2011
    just thought anymore might tell him i hit my  flush, def think i shoulda bet more on river mind
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:
    Really? What if the turn brings a blank? Trying to get it in on the flop when he's showing aggression and you probably have 15 outs is the best thing to do with 100BB. 
    Posted by percival09
    If we get it in theres a decent chance we only have 9 outs. Also his sizing is bad on flop, theres a good chance it will be small on turn also so we may be able to call again if we miss.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited April 2011
    Hmm maybe so, suppose it's hard to help with no reads on the opponent. 

    It's possible he has a flush draw himself, or maybe he's a weak opponent who would stack off with 10A here? 

    Fair enough if he's a solid opponent who is likely to have a set or 2 pair here, then calling is the best option, but I just think in general, re-raising in hope to get it in is the best option, but then again, maybe I'm wrong.  
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited April 2011
    i dont like 3 betting flop here, id bet £6 on turn and the rest on the river
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  • beeasyonmebeeasyonme Member Posts: 120
    edited April 2011
    i think you played this fine. if you reraise the flop then you might have the difficult decision to make if your opponent then places a huge overbet in. After the turn he checks so is probably weary of the flush so if you bet too high you might lose your customer and its the exact same on the river. There might of been a few more pounds to be won here but i think your spliting hairs TBH, well played.

    Not sure about that one Nick is a player really checking the river then calling the shove? im not sure
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  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:
    i think you played this fine. if you reraise the flop then you might have the difficult decision to make if your opponent then places a huge overbet in. After the turn he checks so is probably weary of the flush so if you bet too high you might lose your customer and its the exact same on the river. There might of been a few more pounds to be won here but i think your spliting hairs TBH, well played. Not sure about that one Nick is a player really checking the river then calling the shove? im not sure
    Posted by beeasyonme
    They should not call a shove on the river as played - hence why we build the pot by betting more on the turn so that it makes it more likely for a shove on the river to be called. 
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited April 2011
    also it wouldn't be a shove as such its like a pot size bet as Dylan says we have made this by betting bigger on turn, ok he may fold he may call but over time it will be more profitable imo,

    and as the hand was played by op i wouldnt hate a shove on the river anyway
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  • beeasyonmebeeasyonme Member Posts: 120
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:
    also it wouldn't be a shove as such its like a pot size bet as Dylan says we have made this by betting bigger on turn, ok he may fold he may call but over time it will be more profitable imo, and as the hand was played by op i wouldnt hate a shove on the river anyway
    Posted by N1CK
    I know what your saying, you want to get your OP pot commited on the turn and this is fine if they make a bet however how many players at NL30 going to check then call 20BB, not many IMO. If this was NL10 or lower then sure but at this level players understand the structure abit more and this kind of bet is likely to scare players away rather than suck them in.
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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river?:
    In Response to Re: should i be betting more on the turn and the river? : I know what your saying, you want to get your OP pot commited on the turn and this is fine if they make a bet however how many players at NL30 going to check then call 20BB, not many IMO. If this was NL10 or lower then sure but at this level players understand the structure abit more and this kind of bet is likely to scare players away rather than suck them in.
    Posted by beeasyonme
    the players that call oop with 10 6 and chk raise the flop. when he chk/r flop hes saying he has a strong hand and they dont like to fold them
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  • beeasyonmebeeasyonme Member Posts: 120
    edited April 2011
    but c/r the flop is used for more than that. Alot of players are doing this to shake an opponent off a hand. Im quite sure that we are not going to agree on this one though, you do put up a good argument and i just feel that you are wrong on this particular hand but trying to pot commit your opponents on the turn when holding the nuts is definately the right thing to do long term.
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  • pod1pod1 Member Posts: 4,377
    edited April 2011
    so i take it then, it was acceptable ,but could do better!! 
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  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited April 2011
    Acceptable indeed Mr pod but a few extra glasses of wine to go with your increase of bet sizes and all will be fine :D

    P.S. As a final note, don't over complicate things, this is nl30, have a look at Ozzie08 and his bet sizes - taught him every thing I know apart from the 72off game he plays ;) lol
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