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Flopping a Flush - How to play the stone cold nuts

Liberachi7Liberachi7 Member Posts: 7
edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Hi people,

Very rarely post on here but I always find these kind of spots interesting, and would like to hear other people's take.

Bit of background first; this hand involves myself flopping the second nut flush against an opponent many of you at the low cash levels will be familiar with. We have clocked a fair few hands against each other and I think would be fair to say we have a fairly good understanding of each other's games. However you don't need to focus on this particular opponent specifically, any feedback about this kind of spot, ie. flopping a flush out of position against a tight aggressive player, would be interesting.

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceTomAaSmall blind £0.15£0.15£23.25Liberachi7Big blind £0.30£0.45£68.42 Your hole cardsK4   DOHHHHHHHRaise £1.20£1.65£95.78gillian23Fold    TomAaFold    Liberachi7Call £0.90£2.55£67.52Flop  63Q   Liberachi7Check    DOHHHHHHHBet £1.80£4.35£93.98Liberachi7Raise £5.30£9.65£62.22DOHHHHHHHCall £3.50£13.15£90.48Turn  A   Liberachi7Bet £8.80£21.95£53.42DOHHHHHHHCall £8.80£30.75£81.68River  

9   Liberachi7Check   


Ok so I'll talk though my thinking of the hand. First off, I know K4s is not a strong hand preflop and is not hand that is usually in my range. I had planned for this to be the last hand on this particular table and therefore played this speculative holding out of position so PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT HAND SELECTION. I am fully aware K4 is garbage.

So, I make a speculative call and hit a monster, now all i have to work out is how to get payed. I elect to check raise the flop. I like this play in this spot for a number of reasons; first off if he has missed entirely it is the kind of flop that many players will 'c-bet' into and by checking I allow him to bluff and pick up a small pot. However in spots like these you are always hoping your opponent has a big hand which is going to pay you off, and this is really why i like the check raise. I am trying to rep either a bluff or an aggressive play of a flush draw such as the bare Ace, and by I think check raising does this far better than leading out. If we assume our opponent has a hand he is definitely going to call, although there is also a good chance that in the face of our aggression he will rer-aise. The ideal scenario in this spot is getting it in on the flop and I think a check raise is the best way of doing this.

Now the lead out on the turn. From the opponents call on the flop it is safe to assume he has a hand, ranging from top pair, over pairs, any set, and speculative play of just a flush draw.The Ace of clubs is a bit of a nightmare card for our action as it is the ultimate scare card, but I think we still have to bet it. There are certain spots where I like check raising again, but on this board against this opponent i don't think that is an option. Checking gives the opponent the opportunity to check behind with both made flush draws and a whole range of pairs and straights which may have called.

So now the river comes the 5th club which would seem to kill our action. The only hands which I can see giving us action are the Jack or maybe 10 of clubs. This is the spot which I am most unsure about and would really like to hear feedback. As you can see I decided to check. I did consider value betting but could only think of a very specific range of calling hands our opponent has, as any sets or Qs or As have been counterfeited by the flush coming on the river. If I were to value bet I would probably shove, as any 1/2 to 2/3 pot bet in this spot just screams of strength I think. But again what hand is going to call a shove - not many. By checking I am giving the opponent a chance to bluff at the pot, repping that I had taken a stab but now given up. And of course the specific hand range of Jc and 10c which would call a value bet almost certainly bet and mabye even call my check raise.

But what do you think? What is the best way to get paid with the stone cold nuts? Do you like my check on the river? What hand are you putting him on on the flop and turn? And furthermore do you think I get maximum value on the flop and turn? And Dohhh if you are reading your feedback would be great to hear, I'd love to know how you think I played the hand and what you had me on.

I would like to do this hand analysis blind if you dont' mind so I will put up what Dohhh had in a day or so after there has been some debate. I know the suspense if unbearable right!




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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited April 2011
    Snap fold pre flop.

    Rest of hand is fine, bet about £20-£25 on river, jobs a good un.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited April 2011
    Hahahhahahahahahahhahahah.

    I'm guessing you guys are having a bit of a joke as he also posted this hand :p
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2011
    lol !!

    Did you read my post before posting this, or were you gonna do it anyway????

    I deffo owe you a pint for your river line ;)
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  • Liberachi7Liberachi7 Member Posts: 7
    edited April 2011
    Ok just realised Dohhh has posted exact same hand a few hours earlier. Not meant as a joke was complete coincidence, I just didn't check the forum properly before posting. I mean what are the chances?

    Actually thinking about it, being Dohhh, the chances of us both posting the same hand were pretty good.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2011
    best of luck doing that analysis blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Flopping a Flush - How to play the stone cold nuts:
    Hi people, Very rarely post on here but I always find these kind of spots interesting, and would like to hear other people's take. Bit of background first; this hand involves myself flopping the second nut flush against an opponent many of you at the low cash levels will be familiar with. We have clocked a fair few hands against each other and I think would be fair to say we have a fairly good understanding of each other's games. However you don't need to focus on this particular opponent specifically, any feedback about this kind of spot, ie. flopping a flush out of position against a tight aggressive player, would be interesting. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance TomAa Small blind   £0.15 £0.15 £23.25 Liberachi7 Big blind   £0.30 £0.45 £68.42   Your hole cards K 4       DOHHHHHHH Raise   £1.20 £1.65 £95.78 gillian23 Fold         TomAa Fold         Liberachi7 Call   £0.90 £2.55 £67.52 Flop     6 3 Q       Liberachi7 Check         DOHHHHHHH Bet   £1.80 £4.35 £93.98 Liberachi7 Raise   £5.30 £9.65 £62.22 DOHHHHHHH Call   £3.50 £13.15 £90.48 Turn     A       Liberachi7 Bet   £8.80 £21.95 £53.42 DOHHHHHHH Call   £8.80 £30.75 £81.68 River     9       Liberachi7 Check       Ok so I'll talk though my thinking of the hand. First off, I know K4s is not a strong hand preflop and is not hand that is usually in my range. I had planned for this to be the last hand on this particular table and therefore played this speculative holding out of position so PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT HAND SELECTION. I am fully aware K4 is garbage. So, I make a speculative call and hit a monster, now all i have to work out is how to get payed. I elect to check raise the flop. I like this play in this spot for a number of reasons; first off if he has missed entirely it is the kind of flop that many players will 'c-bet' into and by checking I allow him to bluff and pick up a small pot. However in spots like these you are always hoping your opponent has a big hand which is going to pay you off, and this is really why i like the check raise. I am trying to rep either a bluff or an aggressive play of a flush draw such as the bare Ace, and by I think check raising does this far better than leading out. If we assume our opponent has a hand he is definitely going to call, although there is also a good chance that in the face of our aggression he will rer-aise. The ideal scenario in this spot is getting it in on the flop and I think a check raise is the best way of doing this. Now the lead out on the turn. From the opponents call on the flop it is safe to assume he has a hand, ranging from top pair, over pairs, any set, and speculative play of just a flush draw.The Ace of clubs is a bit of a nightmare card for our action as it is the ultimate scare card, but I think we still have to bet it. There are certain spots where I like check raising again, but on this board against this opponent i don't think that is an option. Checking gives the opponent the opportunity to check behind with both made flush draws and a whole range of pairs and straights which may have called. So now the river comes the 5th club which would seem to kill our action. The only hands which I can see giving us action are the Jack or maybe 10 of clubs. This is the spot which I am most unsure about and would really like to hear feedback. As you can see I decided to check. I did consider value betting but could only think of a very specific range of calling hands our opponent has, as any sets or Qs or As have been counterfeited by the flush coming on the river. If I were to value bet I would probably shove, as any 1/2 to 2/3 pot bet in this spot just screams of strength I think. But again what hand is going to call a shove - not many. By checking I am giving the opponent a chance to bluff at the pot, repping that I had taken a stab but now given up. And of course the specific hand range of Jc and 10c which would call a value bet almost certainly bet and mabye even call my check raise. But what do you think? What is the best way to get paid with the stone cold nuts? Do you like my check on the river? What hand are you putting him on on the flop and turn? And furthermore do you think I get maximum value on the flop and turn? And Dohhh if you are reading your feedback would be great to hear, I'd love to know how you think I played the hand and what you had me on. I would like to do this hand analysis blind if you dont' mind so I will put up what Dohhh had in a day or so after there has been some debate. I know the suspense if unbearable right!
    Posted by Liberachi7

    I think you have to bet the river.....

    You've played with me lots so you must have seen me make some horrific calls.

    A small bet could get paid, I might convince myself It's a split, and you'd turned your set into a bluff like I said on the other thread. 

    We're also deep enough for me to freak out and do something really silly........which again, I'm sure you've seen me do qite a few times. 

    If the roles were revesed I'd probably bet something like £9 otr.



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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2011
    Fold pre even this deep

    c/r flop is good

    I think betting turn is prob best, although nearly all his possible hands hate that card

    Bet river. More worse hands call than bet and you are never getting a c/r called on that board with that action from a solid player. However even if you bet you will get tonnes of folds
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