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Table Bullies

NeildownNeildown Member Posts: 1,635
edited May 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Watched this table for a bit before sitting and wanted to get involved in some hands with the player as i saw him shove over 70bb pre three or four times

He was often doing this on turn/river too....... please tell me where iv played it wrong at all stages, but most importantly do i call that turn shove when iv invested a fair bit into the pot with that sort of draw?

lvaBigOne2 Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £7.69
Big_Dawg Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £3.38
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • 9
     
nawtybwoy8 Fold        
Mco001 Fold        
pokerpro77 Call   £0.10 £0.25 £7.06
Neildown Raise   £0.30 £0.55 £7.32
lvaBigOne2 Call   £0.25 £0.80 £7.44
Big_Dawg Fold        
pokerpro77 Call   £0.20 £1.00 £6.86
Flop
   
  • 8
  • 7
  • 5
     
lvaBigOne2 Check        
pokerpro77 Bet   £0.50 £1.50 £6.36
Neildown Call   £0.50 £2.00 £6.82
lvaBigOne2 Fold        
Turn
   
  • 7
     
pokerpro77 Bet   £1.00 £3.00 £5.36
Neildown Raise   £2.30 £5.30 £4.52
pokerpro77 All-in   £5.36 £10.66 £0.00
Neildown Call   £4.06 £14.72 £0.46
pokerpro77 Show
  • 9
  • K
     
Neildown Show
  • 10
  • 9
     
River
   
  • A
     
pokerpro77 Win Pair of 7s £13.61   £13.61
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Comments

  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop Member Posts: 3,795
    edited April 2011
    I'm not a fan of chasing an oe straight draw once the board has paired.

    I think I would of folded the turn.


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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited April 2011
    I prefer limping 109 of on button if a passive table, dont hate the raise tho just how i would have played it

    on flop i re-raise them prob stack of as we're like 30% with open ended + your overcards if you assume they have small part of board

    Best way to beat table bullies is play back at them, or nit up and then go for kill depending on wat type of bully they are
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  • Prop60Prop60 Member Posts: 147
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Table Bullies:
    Watched this table for a bit before sitting and wanted to get involved in some hands with the player as i saw him shove over 70bb pre three or four times He was often doing this on turn/river too....... please tell me where iv played it wrong at all stages, but most importantly do i call that turn shove when iv invested a fair bit into the pot with that sort of draw? lvaBigOne2 Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £7.69 Big_Dawg Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £3.38   Your hole cards 10 9       nawtybwoy8 Fold         Mco001 Fold         pokerpro77 Call   £0.10 £0.25 £7.06 Neildown Raise   £0.30 £0.55 £7.32 lvaBigOne2 Call   £0.25 £0.80 £7.44 Big_Dawg Fold         pokerpro77 Call   £0.20 £1.00 £6.86 Flop     8 7 5       lvaBigOne2 Check         pokerpro77 Bet   £0.50 £1.50 £6.36 Neildown Call   £0.50 £2.00 £6.82 lvaBigOne2 Fold         Turn     7       pokerpro77 Bet   £1.00 £3.00 £5.36 Neildown Raise   £2.30 £5.30 £4.52 pokerpro77 All-in   £5.36 £10.66 £0.00 Neildown Call   £4.06 £14.72 £0.46 pokerpro77 Show 9 K       Neildown Show 10 9       River     A       pokerpro77 Win Pair of 7s £13.61   £13.61
    Posted by Neildown
    I'm hardly the most experienced player on here but, for what it's worth:

    1.He's got position on you so I'd be a bit wary of taking on an aggressive player from there with middling unsuited connectors.

    2. Once the flush draw is there, it starts to get a bit scary for me with a straight draw but if you really want to push him, a bigger raise might have done the trick.

    3. If you really did put him on rubbish after the board was paired I'd have checked the turn and  tried to push him off with a big raise or shove if he bet.

    But really I thinkif you're going to take on a known bully wait til you've got the hand and position to do so.I  hope you've put a label on him for the future!


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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2011
    reasons for raising the turn?
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  • NeildownNeildown Member Posts: 1,635
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies:
    In Response to Table Bullies : I'm hardly the most experienced player on here but, for what it's worth: 1.He's got position on you so I'd be a bit wary of taking on an aggressive player from there with middling unsuited connectors. 2. Once the flush draw is there, it starts to get a bit scary for me with a straight draw but if you really want to push him, a bigger raise might have done the trick. 3. If you really did put him on rubbish after the board was paired I'd have checked the turn and  tried to push him off with a big raise or shove if he bet. But really I thinkif you're going to take on a known bully wait til you've got the hand and position to do so.I  hope you've put a label on him for the future!
    Posted by Prop60
    I had the button.... do you call his shove with a weakish draw?
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  • NeildownNeildown Member Posts: 1,635
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies:
    reasons for raising the turn?
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    I raised pre and flat his flop bet, i was hoping i could rep a overpair maybe, didnt expect him to shove, i wanted him to fold

    Can i shove that turn before him and get him to lay?
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  • SILEEKSILEEK Member Posts: 55
    edited April 2011
    You chased a straight all the way down to the river.
    When opponent shoves, notwithstanding the fact you had
    a chance of hitting 6 or J, you are effectively sat with
    10 high.
    So, this is nothing more than gambling.

    NB donkey - would HAVE folded, or even WOULD'VE folded if I am feeling generous, but 
    NEVER would OF folded.
    Illiteracy is a minor irritation of mine that's all :-)
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  • Prop60Prop60 Member Posts: 147
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies:
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies : I had the button.... do you call his shove with a weakish draw?
    Posted by Neildown
    Ooops - told you I hadn't been around long! Misread the hand post.
    You don't have a brother called Ben, do you? :-)
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  • donkeyplopdonkeyplop Member Posts: 3,795
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies:
    You chased a straight all the way down to the river. When opponent shoves, notwithstanding the fact you had a chance of hitting 6 or J, you are effectively sat with 10 high. So, this is nothing more than gambling. NB donkey - would HAVE folded, or even WOULD'VE folded if I am feeling generous, but  NEVER would OF folded. Illiteracy is a minor irritation of mine that's all :-)
    Posted by SILEEK
    Sorry I only got a d in gcse English ;)

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  • Seagull158Seagull158 Member Posts: 1,100
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies:
    You chased a straight all the way down to the river. When opponent shoves, notwithstanding the fact you had a chance of hitting 6 or J, you are effectively sat with 10 high. So, this is nothing more than gambling. NB donkey - would HAVE folded, or even WOULD'VE folded if I am feeling generous, but  NEVER would OF folded. Illiteracy is a minor irritation of mine that's all :-)
    Posted by SILEEK
    I'm with you on the literacy front. All this "would of" nonsense drives me crazy.
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  • NeildownNeildown Member Posts: 1,635
    edited April 2011
    Ok so he can see i'm playing pretty lag, i top up and get this about 4 hands later

    A friend whos game i respect a lot said i shouldnt of been in this hand and it was a bit fishy

    Is anyone laying this at any point?
    Neildown Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £12.31
    lvaBigOne2 Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £6.44
      Your hole cards
    • 8
    • 4
    		     
    Big_Dawg Fold        
    nawtybwoy8 Call   £0.10 £0.25 £6.67
    Mco001 Fold        
    pokerpro77 Call   £0.10 £0.35 £12.61
    Neildown Call   £0.05 £0.40 £12.26
    lvaBigOne2 Check        
    Flop
       
    • Q
    • 8
    • 10
    		     
    Neildown Check        
    lvaBigOne2 Check        
    nawtybwoy8 Bet   £0.30 £0.70 £6.37
    pokerpro77 Call   £0.30 £1.00 £12.31
    Neildown Call   £0.30 £1.30 £11.96
    lvaBigOne2 Fold        
    Turn
       
    • 9
    		     
    Neildown Check        
    nawtybwoy8 Bet   £1.30 £2.60 £5.07
    pokerpro77 Call   £1.30 £3.90 £11.01
    Neildown Call   £1.30 £5.20 £10.66
    River
       
    • 6
    		     
    Neildown Check        
    nawtybwoy8 Check        
    pokerpro77 All-in   £11.01 £16.21 £0.00
    Neildown All-in   £10.66 £26.87 £0.00
    nawtybwoy8 All-in   £5.07 £31.94 £0.00
    pokerpro77 Unmatched bet   £0.35 £31.59 £0.35
    Neildown Show
    • 8
    • 4
    		     
    nawtybwoy8 Show
    • A
    • A
    		     
    pokerpro77 Show
    • J
    • Q
    		     
    Neildown Win Flush to the Queen £30.19   £30.19
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2011
    Yeh at least you know what he was trying to say.

    Young gun on the other hand just randomly misses words out mid sentance and ends up talking a load of sh!te.

    The hands.....

    I'd probably fold both pre.....

    I don't like the raise on the turn in hand 1. The c bet on the flop is good. I would probably flat call the turn althought it's starting to get messy as some of your outs are spades, and it's a paired board. I don't like raising here it's a bad spot to semi bluff.

    The 2nd hand I don't mind limping from the small blind. Fold is obviously best, but I like seeing flops :)

    I like the flat on the flop, no need to raise coz theres no way they're all gonna fold.

    When I get there on the turn I definitely make a raise to build the pot, then shove the rest on the river.

    As played it worked out perfect for u! nh!


    In general playing against these maniacs I like to see as many flops with hands that hit well, and then just value town them when I make a big hand. I wouldn't be bluffing/semi bluffing or playing back at them too much.

    Play abit looser, abit more passive, and hope you make a hand to catch him before someone else does.


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  • yuranASSetyuranASSet Member Posts: 485
    edited April 2011
    You watched this guy, picked up on him being a donk, then semi-semi-bluffed the donk. This is your mistake. Don't bluff donks. I would even tighten up my btn range here against opponent and fold pre. There isn't a great deal you can do when your behind every street against a donk.
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  • SILEEKSILEEK Member Posts: 55
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies:
    In Response to Re: Table Bullies : Sorry I only got a d in gcse English ;)
    Posted by donkeyplop
    My reply pointing out the difference between have and of, was tongue in cheek
    and was in no way intended to be insulting.
    I had a smile on my face when I typed it, and I am glad to see you treated it
    with a sense of humour :-)
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited April 2011
    I preferred Mmmmchips reply personally, he's my hero!
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  • NeildownNeildown Member Posts: 1,635
    edited May 2011
    Another bully, another time i decide its me going to teach him a lesson!

    He been raising 4/5bb everytime he has the button, he called an all in shove on the turn (25bb) against another playing when he was holding ace high

    Can i look him up here pre oop? should i reraise pre? am i right to like that flop and to try and take it down there ? how much do you like the turn?

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Neildown Small blind   100.00 100.00 15395.00
    cooper1 Big blind   200.00 300.00 6920.00
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • J
    		     
    RogueCell Fold        
    IRISHROVER Fold        
    chaseboy Raise   1000.00 1300.00 23975.00
    Neildown Call   900.00 2200.00 14495.00
    cooper1 Fold        
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • 9
    • 3
    		     
    Neildown Bet   1400.00 3600.00 13095.00
    chaseboy Call   1400.00 5000.00 22575.00
    Turn
       
    • Q
    		     
    Neildown Check        
    chaseboy Bet   5000.00 10000.00 17575.00
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    Hand 1 Fold pre, check flop, flat turn ,raising turn is spew imo
    Hand 2 I bet flop, bet turn, bet river
    Hand 3 I'd prefer c/r the flop if you want to bluff, I flat call turn and plan to c/c most rivers. I prob just c/f flop though he doesnt seem like a good guy to bluff against
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    I really dont like how u have played this hand tony...

    fold pre as played, c/f flop

    as played i'd prob jam but i think u need to consider how the villain has been playing post flop? Have they called flop before and bet out, if so was they super strong or have half a hand? surely u have checked turn to induce a bet so just shove.

    im not saying ur ahead here but as played only thing u can do and pray that ur good
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