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Name your value bet

TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
edited April 2011 in The Poker Clinic
No reads on the villain.  Been sat for less than a dozen hands or so.  What would you value bet here and why?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
ezryder Small blind £0.50 £0.50 £153.24
x Big blind  £1.00 £1.50 £176.42
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
     
TommyD Raise  £3.00 £4.50 £129.80
EVILEDNA Fold     
5toneFace Fold     
ezryder Fold     
x Call  £2.00 £6.50 £174.42
Flop
   
  • 4
  • K
  • Q
     
x Check     
TommyD Check     
Turn
   
  • 10
     
x Check     
TommyD Bet  £5.00 £11.50 £124.80
x Call  £5.00 £16.50 £169.42
River
   
  • 9
     
xBet  £16.50 £33.00 £152.92
TommyD ?    
      
  
   
  
   
     
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Comments

  • CrazyBen23CrazyBen23 Member Posts: 865
    edited April 2011
    Shove, they'll prob call if they have a jack and fold to whatever you raise without one so go for max value
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  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited April 2011
    reg like 45

    random shove
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2011
    I'd go just above a min raise and let him sp/azz shove.

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  • splashiessplashies Member Posts: 3,680
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet:
    Shove, they'll prob call if they have a jack and fold to whatever you raise without one so go for max value
    Posted by CrazyBen23
    +1. They are repping the jack so will probably call a shove if they do have it. If they are bluffing then they won't call any raise.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2011
    id be cbetting this flop almost always

    about bet sizing..what scotty said
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2011
    65  - he may shove on you :)
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet:
    id be cbetting this flop almost always about bet sizing..what scotty said
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Doesn't K, Q x with a fd hit his calling range pre v hard?

    I can't c bet these boards at my level they don't fold enough.


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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet:
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet : Doesn't K, Q x with a fd hit his calling range pre v hard? I can't c bet these boards at my level they don't fold enough.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    This

    Well open to a c/r here with made hands, draws and air.  Also balancing, got to check my air sometimes otherwise it all goes messy.

    BTW, I shoved.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet:
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet : Doesn't K, Q x with a fd hit his calling range pre v hard? I can't c bet these boards at my level they don't fold enough.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    how does it hit his calling range v hard? hes got 1 set & KQ for strong made hands. 1 set & KQ is 12combos which is just under 1% of total hands. lets say he defends 10% which is pretty nitty, then  hes only ever going to have a strong hand ~10% of the time, hes going to fold flop with all underpairs, peel flop fold turn with Qx. and him bluff raising this board is really bad because big cards = stronger pfr range
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited April 2011
    TJ, TQ, TK, QT, QJ, Q9, KJ, KQ K9 AQ all heart/heart hands.

    ... and 1 set 

    ;)

    edd-it - QT and TQ r 2 diff hands I was on a rolllll :)
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited April 2011
    Anyways, if I decide to I can delay C-Bet a lot of turns even if he leads the turn, repping extreme strength and add a second barrel on most rivers if needed.  I have the early aggression and position.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited April 2011
    i bet 40 hope he jams, but think he'll only call
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet:
    TJ, TQ, TK, QT, QJ, Q9, KJ, KQ K9 AQ all heart/heart hands. ... and 1 set  ;) edd-it - QT and TQ r 2 diff hands I was on a rolllll :)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    so when a complete unknown with 100bb is at table u think they defend their BB with all these hands?
    we beat TJ TK & heart draws

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  • N1CKN1CK Member Posts: 1,453
    edited April 2011
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet:
    In Response to Re: Name your value bet : so when a complete unknown with 100bb is at table u think they defend their BB with all these hands? we beat TJ TK & heart draws
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    we only have a gutter+over and hands that call have us beat or good equity, i dont mind either tbf
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited April 2011
    Ok let's tie this hand up.

    I thought the way he played it he had turned a Jack face up.  I made the over bet shove, he called fairly quickly with KJo for the worse straight.  FWIW I think he was preparing a C/R on the flop.

    Putting myself in the villian's shoes, if they had a set/two pair hand is this a good river bet/fold spot?  In which case they will fold to any decent bet and certainly the shove but may get curious for a bet a little better than a click back.  My argument is if I always shove here am I losing value by not getting the click back calls from worse than straights?  The lower straight may still shove but of course I'm giving them a chance to get off the hook cheaply.
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  • DeucesLiveDeucesLive Member Posts: 839
    edited April 2011
    I think when you raise in this hand you almost 100% telegraph you have a jack in your hand- his bet is certainly screaming it, so to reraise there with less than a jack is so risky. If he has any less than a straight it's an incredibly difficult call. However, if he has the jack and you make a standard v-bet, he will most likely call, figuring there's no way he's doing better than splitting and shoving is only likely to make the rake the winner. Not to mention the outside chance you have the nut straight.

    I love the shove, it's very, very difficult to fold a jack here and if he has less than that, you probably don't get paid off anyway. He has the straight way more often than he has anything else anyway, good move IMO.
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