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River decision - Make the call?

silentbobsilentbob Member Posts: 2,137
edited May 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Hand id: 375675948

No solid reads on oppo. This is partly down to playing 4 tables & only trying to play strong hands.

The one thing I've noticed is that the oppo has been playing a reasonable amount of hands & loves to limp/call pre with the occasional raise. At this stage though I can't recall seeing any of his hands go to showdown so I don't know exactly how wide he's playing.

A few hands earlier (well, probably around 10-12 hands or so) he'd done the same thing on the river to me after I was betting into my flush draw & missed. Obviously on that occasion I folded!

The check calling suggested a likely missed draw or missed overcards but I wasn't absolutely certain this was the case. Does anyone make the hero call here or do you let go?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £6.69
OPPO Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £4.76
 Your hole cards
  • 8
  • 8
   
 Call  £0.04 £0.10 £2.45
 Fold     
silentbob Raise  £0.20 £0.30 £4.73
 Fold     
 Fold     
OPPO Call  £0.16 £0.46 £4.60
 Fold     
Flop
  
  • 7
  • 9
  • 3
   
OPPO Check     
silentbob Bet  £0.40 £0.86 £4.33
OPPO Call  £0.40 £1.26 £4.20
Turn
  
  • 2
   
OPPO Check     
silentbob Bet  £1.10 £2.36 £3.23
OPPO Call  £1.10 £3.46 £3.10
River
  
  • 7
   
OPPO All-in  £3.10 £6.56 £0.00
silentbob ???     

Comments

  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited May 2011

    i think you have to fold personally, the way the hand has played I wouldn't have much of an idea of where you are in the hand, A7? A9??? or could be a busted flush draw?
    although it's another 3 quid to win 9, depends if ur in a gambling mood i guess
    can see why you posted this on the clinic, tough spot

    having said all that, i rarely play cash so i'm sure some reg cash players will totally disagree!!

  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited May 2011

    Not 100% rik, but when calculating our odds I think it's the existing pot we need to look at, so it's another 3 quid to win 6.......

    In fact I am pretty sure thats right, and probably what u meant anyway lol.

    ^^^^Waffle to avoid answering the tough question ftw!

    I think this looks like he's backed into a flush, maybe something like 9T, 9J of spades......

    It's a spot where you gotta keep your discipline, and just fold I think.

    9x beats you, 7x got there, ugh, it's ugly, fold!

  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited May 2011
    Too many hands that beat you are out there. Its a fold i would have thought.

    Just hope that when you do have the nuts he thinks he can pull this move on you again now it has worked twice.
  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: River decision - Make the call?:
    Not 100% rik, but when calculating our odds I think it's the existing pot we need to look at, so it's another 3 quid to win 6....... In fact I am pretty sure thats right, and probably what u meant anyway lol. ^^^^Waffle to avoid answering the tough question ftw! I think this looks like he's backed into a flush, maybe something like 9T, 9J of spades...... It's a spot where you gotta keep your discipline, and just fold I think. 9x beats you, 7x got there, ugh, it's ugly, fold!
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    lol yeah, i meant if he calls he'll have 9 quid (if it's the right call obv!), although he'll only win 6, my bad.
    still a fold though lol
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2011

    instinct says he using the 7 to bluff if he likes to bluff then call
    The thing is your so easy behind to his calling range since pre and a 7 does fit the bill

    be a hero or a donk -- you decide

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    its a pretty good card to bluff, but against an unknown I fold
  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    I fold like a little girl, i reckon he either has top pair like A9/K9 maybe or has got a house. think he is being clever with the flat on the flop, could be a busted Heart draw maybe with a Jack in it? but with no reads i have to fold
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2011
    I personally just limp along pre, 88 is a good hand but at NL4 you'll always see overs and makes it hard to play.

    On flop cbet is fine with one over.

    Once called though I can't see why you're betting again defo time to slow down here imo.

    River is snap fold, he's limp called every street but suddenly starts being aggressive, most the time means they want a call. Plus you don't even have TP.
  • silentbobsilentbob Member Posts: 2,137
    edited May 2011
    Thanks for the feedback peeps.

    This was one of those occasions where I went with my gut at the last second & made the call. In hindsight (& obviously taking all advice on board) it was probably the wrong thing to do in the long run although results wise it was the right thing on this occasion as he flipped JT hearts for the busted draws.

    Dudeskin - I kinda understand what you're saying about slowing down on the turn but I can't see that the 2 has changed anything. You pretty much have to put him on a 9x hand to not bet surely? I think it's highly unlikely he plays a bigger PP this way (although I wouldn't rule it out altogether of course). You'll know yourself how many players can't put down paint cards at this level.

    Also the reason for the raise pre is down to the fact I've got position. If I'm in EP then I agree, I think a limp is probably the best way forward. 
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: River decision - Make the call?:
    Thanks for the feedback peeps. This was one of those occasions where I went with my gut at the last second & made the call. In hindsight (& obviously taking all advice on board) it was probably the wrong thing to do in the long run although results wise it was the right thing on this occasion as he flipped JT hearts for the busted draws. Dudeskin - I kinda understand what you're saying about slowing down on the turn but I can't see that the 2 has changed anything. You pretty much have to put him on a 9x hand to not bet surely? I think it's highly unlikely he plays a bigger PP this way (although I wouldn't rule it out altogether of course). You'll know yourself how many players can't put down paint cards at this level. Also the reason for the raise pre is down to the fact I've got position. If I'm in EP then I agree, I think a limp is probably the best way forward. 
    Posted by silentbob
    That's the reason why I don't bet lol no point inflating the pot to a crazy level when you are not certain you even have the best pair, for me the bet on turn is a bluff as you can't be value betting much and bluffs for me most the time are NOT GOOD especially very large ones like this.
  • silentbobsilentbob Member Posts: 2,137
    edited May 2011
    Fair point bud. If I'm honest I didn't really think about that at the time (Obviously!)
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2011
    BTW did you call ?
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    betting turn can get value from tonnes of draws, having said that I dont mind checking
  • silentbobsilentbob Member Posts: 2,137
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: River decision - Make the call?:
    BTW did you call ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Yeah I did at the last second. It was a call made on gut feeling more than anything else & he flipped JT hearts for busted draws. Obviously I got it right on this occasion but it appears that might not necessarily be the right thing to do in the long term based on the advice on here.
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2011
    LOL nice brag thread, but long term this is massive spew for me.
  • offshootoffshoot Member Posts: 1,049
    edited May 2011
    the river isnt that bad a card for your hand, i call here a decent amount of the time.
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