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just a cooler??

waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
edited June 2011 in The Poker Clinic
this hand is from tonights mini open.
I had been raising quite a lot in position and they were mostly getting through so when the villain 3 bets me should I have folded?? shoved?? is the call the worst option??
what would you have done when facing his 3 bet?
after the flop and especially the turn there is no way of getting off the hand.
Soreknees Small blind  100.00 100.00 5885.00
ZEON49 Big blind  200.00 300.00 2090.00
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • A
     
stegstan Fold     
swordsyboy Fold     
ROL-ROCKS Fold     
waller02 Raise  600.00 900.00 7485.00
Soreknees Raise  1700.00 2600.00 4185.00
ZEON49 Fold     
waller02 Call  1200.00 3800.00 6285.00
Flop
   
  • 2
  • 5
  • A
     
Soreknees Check     
waller02 Check     
Turn
   
  • Q
     
Soreknees Check     
waller02 Bet  2850.00 6650.00 3435.00
Soreknees All-in  4185.00 10835.00 0.00
waller02 Call  1335.00 12170.00 2100.00
Soreknees Show
  • A
  • A
   
waller02 Show
  • Q
  • A
   
River
   
  • 8
     
Soreknees Win Three Aces 12170.00
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    dont like calling pre unless you are making moves or floating on some flops and have a good read on villain. I prob shove, fold prob ok if he has been nitty

    I like how you played it postflop
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited May 2011

    I'd be shoving or folding pre.

    Also I'd bet turn abit smaller.
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: just a cooler??:
    dont like calling pre unless you are making moves or floating on some flops and have a good read on villain. I prob shove, fold prob ok if he has been nitty I like how you played it postflop
    Posted by grantorino
    the villain had been playing fairly tight, folding to most raises and not playing many hands.
    i called because i was in position and wanted to see a flop, if i miss the flop i can fold and still have over 30bb's.
    i'm getting frustrated with my game at the minute because i have been getting off to great starts in mtts and then one small mistake ruins it all!!!!!
    i didn't shove because the villain had been playing tight so i gave him credit for a big hand so i guess i should have just folded? right?
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  • AyrGraemeAyrGraeme Member Posts: 271
    edited May 2011
    In Response to just a cooler??:
    this hand is from tonights mini open. I had been raising quite a lot in position and they were mostly getting through so when the villain 3 bets me should I have folded?? shoved?? is the call the worst option?? what would you have done when facing his 3 bet? after the flop and especially the turn there is no way of getting off the hand. Soreknees Small blind   100.00 100.00 5885.00 ZEON49 Big blind   200.00 300.00 2090.00   Your hole cards Q A       stegstan Fold         swordsyboy Fold         ROL-ROCKS Fold         waller02 Raise   600.00 900.00 7485.00 Soreknees Raise   1700.00 2600.00 4185.00 ZEON49 Fold         waller02 Call   1200.00 3800.00 6285.00 Flop     2 5 A       Soreknees Check         waller02 Check         Turn     Q       Soreknees Check         waller02 Bet   2850.00 6650.00 3435.00 Soreknees All-in   4185.00 10835.00 0.00 waller02 Call   1335.00 12170.00 2100.00 Soreknees Show A A       waller02 Show Q A       River     8       Soreknees Win Three Aces 12170.00
    Posted by waller02
    Like the others with your stack size probably best to either jam or fold pre.  Once you turn top 2 v  top set its a definite cooler
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited May 2011
    To be honest its really ugly bud.  Its all going in after the flop, I dont think you can help that.

    When you bet for perceived value at turn your priced in totally, which is what he wanted, you simply cannot fold there even though you kn ow that its unlikely that your hand is good.

    Pre flop is tricky.  We're talking 6 handed with AsQs on the button being re raised by the blinds.  You say you've been raising position frequently and getting them through.  So when he pops you from the SB are you wondering if that is partly down to your image rather than opponents holdings?  (I likely would be, if I'd been opening IP)

    His stack size is difficult here.  With a real hand he has no real fold equity with the 3 bet, so If you think the AQ is good, easy enough to set him in.  But if you're prepared to set him in pre regardless, I dont mind the flat with him being pretty knitty, as if he does have a AK/J J's or lower PP you retain a pot sized bullet to apply pressure post.

    At a 9 handed table I likely fold pre to the 3bet, but your at the top of your range mostly here vs the blinds.  I think you're tied to it mostly bud.
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: just a cooler??:
    To be honest its really ugly bud.  Its all going in after the flop, I dont think you can help that. When you bet for perceived value at turn your priced in totally, which is what he wanted, you simply cannot fold there even though you kn ow that its unlikely that your hand is good. Pre flop is tricky.  We're talking 6 handed with AsQs on the button being re raised by the blinds.  You say you've been raising position frequently and getting them through.  So when he pops you from the SB are you wondering if that is partly down to your image rather than opponents holdings?  (I likely would be, if I'd been opening IP) His stack size is difficult here.  With a real hand he has no real fold equity with the 3 bet, so If you think the AQ is good, easy enough to set him in.  But if you're prepared to set him in pre regardless, I dont mind the flat with him being pretty knitty, as if he does have a AK/J J's or lower PP you retain a pot sized bullet to apply pressure post. At a 9 handed table I likely fold pre to the 3bet, but your at the top of your range mostly here vs the blinds.  I think you're tied to it mostly bud.
    Posted by AMYBR
    to be honest I gave him credit for a big hand, I think his 3 bet was a perfect size and it left me puzzled with what I should do, the time bar soon goes down! lol 
    Being in position I thought I'd take a flop and see what he does, with the view of trying to push him off if he checks or puts in a weak c-bet and also folding if he shows strength and i have missed (at this point I would have still had 30+bb's).
    After the flop and the turn the hand plays itself but after the input from everyone and the fact I thought he had a strong hand, I reckon I should have folded rather than shoved and I think the flat call was a mistake but like I said when you have 12 secs or so to think about it folding AQs in position is hard to do!! All in all the guy outplayed me, fair play to him!
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  • jakallyjakally Member Posts: 421
    edited June 2011

    If he has been tight, and you can't remember him 3  betting before, his 3 bet range is  probably ahead of AQ.
    It's a really nitty fold, but if you don't think he does this with JJ or AJ, then you are pretty much crushed.

    If you think he is 3 betting a bit wider than this then shove rather than call.
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  • jakallyjakally Member Posts: 421
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: just a cooler??:
    In Response to Re: just a cooler?? :  Being in position I thought I'd take a flop and see what he does, with the view of trying to push him off if he checks or puts in a weak c-bet and also folding if he shows strength 
    Posted by waller02

    If you put him on a big hand, then thinking you can get him to fold, when the effective stacks are only 30BB's, and there are 19BB's in PF is a pretty flawed way of looking at this situation.
    You are pretty much hoping he has KK or QQ, praying for an Ace, and then willing him to make a crying call when it comes.



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  • TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited June 2011
     A couple of things jump out about this hand.  Pre flop i dont like the call. AQ is a big hand but it ranks up there with JJ as a big hand that loses people a lot of chips/money. For me i am either 4-bet shoving or folding.

      The bet on the turn is another thing that i dont like. When you look through the story of the preflop and flop.He has a hand big enough to 3-bet and then checks the flop and the turn. This leads to 2 possible scenarios either he is absolutely massive and is trapping or has missed totally and trying to get away cheaply. So this leads us to think we are either 100 miles ahead or 100 miles behind. With this in mind we can safely assume that any action from him after this bet is bad news because he is not going to pay off with a weakened hand and only raise with a better one.


      So for me this hand is either 4bet shove or fold pre. But as played check the turn and either check or call smallish bet on the river. Many will disagree with me on this but that is what makers this game wonderful
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited June 2011
    raise smaller pre
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: just a cooler??:
    In Response to Re: just a cooler?? : If you put him on a big hand, then thinking you can get him to fold, when the effective stacks are only 30BB's, and there are 19BB's in PF is a pretty flawed way of looking at this situation. You are pretty much hoping he has KK or QQ, praying for an Ace, and then willing him to make a crying call when it comes.
    Posted by jakally
    very good point, taken on board.
    i was hoping for an under pair i guess, you have hit the nail on the head!

    cheers for all the input, this is an area of my game that needs improving on so all advice is much appreciated
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