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More bad play........?

ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa Member Posts: 176
edited June 2011 in The Poker Clinic


PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancepoole2109Small blind £0.02£0.02£2.77ZedsDeadBaBig blind £0.04£0.06£4.63yuranASSetSit out     Your hole cardsJA   tburns7506Call £0.04£0.10£3.39honestpaulCall £0.04£0.14£1.52Jonas999Fold    poole2109Call £0.02£0.16£2.75ZedsDeadBaRaise £0.24£0.40£4.39tburns7506Call £0.24£0.64£3.15honestpaulFold    poole2109Call £0.24£0.88£2.51Flop  J47   poole2109Check    ZedsDeadBaCheck    tburns7506Bet £0.36£1.24£2.79poole2109Fold    ZedsDeadBaRaise £0.96£2.20£3.43tburns7506All-in £2.79£4.99£0.00ZedsDeadBaCall £2.19£7.18£1.24ZedsDeadBaShowJA   tburns7506Show77   Turn  5   River  K   tburns7506WinThree 7s£6.64 £6.64

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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    bet flop yourslf, I prob b/f it readless

    if you do c/r make it bigger, I think you have to get it in once you c/r but c/r is a bad idea imo
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  • ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa Member Posts: 176
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    bet flop yourslf, I prob b/f it readless if you do c/r make it bigger, I think you have to get it in once you c/r but c/r is a bad idea imo
    Posted by grantorino
    If I'd bet the flop say 80p-Pot, how would that have changed anything?

    A bet from me would probably have recieved a call, then a turn bet would have effectively put myself all-in.
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  • CrunchybobCrunchybob Member Posts: 576
    edited May 2011
    hey mate.

    pre flop is fine. i would then lead out after flopping tptk, if the guy then raises or goes all in, you have to wonder what he has(its not a flushy or drawy board).
    think how he has been playing would he go all in with a smaller jack(kj or qj).

    so he must have either 2 pair or a set.

    obv this is not the case on every hand but it depends what reads u have on him.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    In Response to Re: More bad play........? : If I'd bet the flop say 80p-Pot, how would that have changed anything? A bet from me would probably have recieved a call, then a turn bet would have effectively put myself all-in.
    Posted by ZedsDeadBa
    ok, first of all we have to play the hand against a range of villains likely hands,not just 77, even if we go broke anyway playing the hand different ways does make a difference to what range villian goes broke with

    you are betting for value as bluffing here would be redic. Bet />c/r imo because :
    1- more worse hands call than bet
    2. some hands that call a bet on flop and turn fold to a flop c/r.

     
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited May 2011
    I think you played hand fine imo and will win more often then not at nl4 playing like this. Good raising pre, top pair top kicker is practically the nuts nl4 but obviously note person in this

    UL
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    I think you played hand fine imo and will win more often then not at nl4 playing like this. Good raising pre, top pair top kicker is practically the nuts nl4 but obviously note person in this UL
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    you do realize that doesnt necessarily mean he played the hand well?
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2011
    imo you can't get away can you
    You can either smell  2pr/set and make the great fold or not

    very player dependant 

    c/c probably the best from the flop 


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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    bet flop yourslf, I prob b/f it readless if you do c/r make it bigger, I think you have to get it in once you c/r but c/r is a bad idea imo
    Posted by grantorino
    If he bets flop he going to be raised anyway 
    c/r is bad, he only getting called or raised by a better hand- take himself to value town

    kinda ends up the same but hey ..... can't see how he makes the fold whatever way he plays it because all the info is there to make the fold 
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    In Response to Re: More bad play........? : If I'd bet the flop say 80p-Pot, how would that have changed anything? A bet from me would probably have recieved a call, then a turn bet would have effectively put myself all-in.
    Posted by ZedsDeadBa
    Let me ask you this when you raised his flop bet was it to get it all in ?
    What were you going to do if he:

    1. calls the raise
    2. raises you
    3. shoves all in

    If you thought you was ahead then all is good




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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    In Response to Re: More bad play........? : If he bets flop he going to be raised anyway  c/r is bad, he only getting called or raised by a better hand- take himself to value town kinda ends up the same but hey ..... can't see how he makes the fold whatever way he plays it because all the info is there to make the fold 
    Posted by rancid
    I have no idea what you mean by this.

    I prob b/f that flop, but even if I am happy to get it in betting />>>>>>>>c/r imo. We are playing against villains ranges not just 77, otherwise we obv c/f flop lol
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  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    I think you played hand fine imo and will win more often then not at nl4 playing like this. Good raising pre, top pair top kicker is practically the nuts nl4 but obviously note person in this UL
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    +1

    We can get as technical as we like here, but theres no real point.  Action being TPTK vs mid set on the flop, your not sat very deep, unless you have a good enough handle on opponent to put him on a set, your likely doing your stack here.  You have no reason to believe opponent has Q's or better.

    Definately lead flop, I dont really get the check raise.  But if you feel like you stack him when turn comes a mostly meaningless 5 regardless, you dont do alot wrong. 

    But I really wouldnt ever check raise in this spot
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited May 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    In Response to Re: More bad play........? : I have no idea what you mean by this. I prob b/f that flop, but even if I am happy to get it in betting /> />>>>>>>c/r imo. We are playing against villains ranges not just 77, otherwise we obv c/f flop lol
    Posted by grantorino

    emmm basically whatever way he plays it he thinks he is ahead, so even though the info is there for him to make the fold he is not going to fold

    he must be c/r flop because he wants all the money in otherwise it's a raise to fold if the V then shoves.
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  • ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa Member Posts: 176
    edited May 2011

    So, although there's not much of a consensus, are we saying c/r in this instance is vulgar, but c/r with pocket JJ is ok? 

    However, bet call with either is better?

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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    who said c/r JJ here?

    in the spot your in I think its close between b/f and b/c on flop. Both are a lot better than c/r imo. Its no good you saying that b/c />c/r unless you understand why, (or if you disagree you have a clear reason why)
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited May 2011
    Preflop raise needs to be at least 32p.

    On flop you HAVE to bet, you have TPTK, checking at this level with this hand is terribad. Get money in as fast as possible.

    It doesn't make a jott of difference that he has a set, with this hand as long as you don't fold on the flop you have played it right but that involves making a bet YOURSELF, DO NOT rely on others to bet DO NOT play fancy, DO NOT try to play poker, play STRONG cards and when you hit strong play them **** HARD.
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  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited May 2011
    Alright Zed mate.

    Pre is fantastic. Looks like you have got some confidence back from the down turn you were suffering.

    I do prefer to lead out on the flop also, however, i dont think it changes the result of the hand so its a bit picky to really say it was that bad.

    A couple of things i would ask you, is what hands did you think he had when he shoved? Had he been 'at it'? Overaggressive? If he had been a bit 'lairy', i dont mind the play. If he had been relatively quiet and kept inline, i would be a bit worried about what he had and might let it go.

    IMO, when you check raise and he shoves, they usually have it in my experience.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2011
    c/r then fold would be beyond bad

    I still think it makes a difference whether you lead with intention to get it in if raised or c/r and get it in, does anyone agree or am I mad?

    I'm also not so sure Im that happy getting it in on this flop, but I'm prepared to accept the views of those who play 4NL on that one
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  • tapewormtapeworm Member Posts: 432
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    c/r then fold would be beyond bad I still think it makes a difference whether you lead with intention to get it in if raised or c/r and get it in, does anyone agree or am I mad? I'm also not so sure Im that happy getting it in on this flop, but I'm prepared to accept the views of those who play 4NL on that one
    Posted by grantorino
    to me it depends alot on what the oppo has been doing, but as played I find a fold alot easier than if we have raised the flop ourselves and then been shoved on- that doesnt mean I agree with the check raise.

    That bet on the flop by villan is larger than your usual donk I wanna fold bet.....Id be thinking he had something solid.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: More bad play........?:
    c/r then fold would be beyond bad I still think it makes a difference whether you lead with intention to get it in if raised or c/r and get it in, does anyone agree or am I mad? I'm also not so sure Im that happy getting it in on this flop, but I'm prepared to accept the views of those who play 4NL on that one
    Posted by grantorino
    c/r to get monies in - b/f is ok - bet with the intention to get monies in is ok 2
    But really if your betting the flop like 3/4 pot and he comes over the top then you have to think again.
    If he does come over the top then maybe just call and check turn

    This spot most times I am happy getting it in, but it's very player dependant

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