Ok guys. I think I've got it....

ZedsDeadBa

From now on, no more attempts at curious Fancy Dan bullhsit moves.

If I think I'm winning its gonna be...

Raise pre,

Bet,

Bet,

All-in!

If I think I'm losing, straight in the muck.

I sat down for half an hour last night after what I can only describe, as Jules might say, as having a moment of clarity, and proceeded to win my three biggest pots to date!

Hope these hands Dot the I's and cross the T's for you ;o)

Sorry for being so slow, but can we put that down to age?

Regards,

Z.






PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancegroves10Small blind £0.02£0.02£8.81Long123Big blind £0.04£0.06£1.61 Your hole cards88   ZedsDeadBaRaise £0.16£0.22£3.91ramsfanFold    daggers747Call £0.16£0.38£2.00groves10Call £0.14£0.52£8.67Long123Call £0.12£0.64£1.49Flop  845   groves10Check    Long123Check    ZedsDeadBaBet £0.48£1.12£3.43daggers747Call £0.48£1.60£1.52groves10Call £0.48£2.08£8.19Long123Fold    Turn  3   groves10Check    ZedsDeadBaBet £1.56£3.64£1.87daggers747All-in £1.52£5.16£0.00groves10Call £1.56£6.72£6.63River  K   groves10Bet £1.28£8.00£5.35ZedsDeadBaAll-in £1.87£9.87£0.00groves10Call £0.59£10.46£4.76groves10Show4K   ZedsDeadBaShow88   daggers747ShowKA   ZedsDeadBaWinThree 8s£9.67 £9.67PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancechackwowSmall blind £0.02£0.02£7.01asyalan19Big blind £0.04£0.06£3.52 Your hole cardsKK   Lukey647Fold   <td class="hhamt" style="text-align:right !important;padding-bottom:7px;margin:0px;padding-left:5px;padding-right:5px;font-family:verdana;color:#666666;font-size:0.9em;vertical-align:middle;font-weight:normal;padding-top:7px;bord

Dudeskin8

Both 88 hands I prefer open limping, being reraised pre makes it awkward a la 3rd hand. Hit set win monies miss set have to cbet always with overs.

KK I prefer 5x UTG, rest is standard.

DOHHHHHHH

Spot on imo !!!

Much much much better.....

Crunchybob

Nice hands, played them really well imo.

hand 3: chackawow must of thought all his xmas's had come at once with the 2 pair...but then BOOM, set of 8's


Keep it up mate.

walesboy

well played
if you keep hitting sets like that I'm avoiding you!!

AcidMan27

Spot on with all of the hands.

I like open raising with the 8's as it gets you into good habits.

If it's been open limped before hand then I don't mind calling to see a cheap flop.

DOHHHHHHH

The limping debate is a very personal thing IMO. 

If you're an experienced, competent player, a winner at the level, you should always be coming in for a raise with hands like 77/88/99 unless you have a read on the table that limping is better.

If you're new to cash poker, limping isn't a bad option.

Dudeskin you should deffo be raising 88 90% of the time at that level with your ability. You prob should be playing higher anyway, but if you're staying at nl4, you should definitely back yourself to play flops with the betting lead and pocket 8s.

grantorino

All well played zed, I sometimes c/r flop in hand 3, leading is fine too 

dude, do you get 3bet enough at 4NL to make opening 88 awkward? if so I would imagine you can start jamming over the 3bets

Dudeskin8

You say raise 90% of time with 88 and of course at higher levels I wouldn't even think about limping but from playing recently hands like 77/88/99 seem strong but in reality you make your standard 4x (more likely 5x with me) then you have a 40p pot, you get your AQ5/K94/QJ2 flop etc then if you cbet a lot of the time you get called by any pair, if that beats 88 no more bets will 'scare them off', that concept doesn't exist here. So most the times I would just check back or open check if OOP and you get the half pot bet or similar then yes you could call and see if he slows down but that just seems to loose and a possible leak to me (which I always try and keep a check on), you could also possibly raise but that would be a bluff and bluffs are TERRIBAD down here so that option dissapears.

However if you just limp you keep the pot smaller although obviously are SOLELY looking for sets, but if you did limp there will often be more people involved in the pot if you have a station table and hence a bigger chance someone has half a hand to stack off with.

@grantorino - Well you don't get 3bet every hand lol but I just personally despise raising with a hand like 88/99 then getting reraised and trying to decide if it's worth set mining whereas limping reduces the raise size.

Overall though maybe I'm just a too tight but at this level it's all about playing STRONG hands and playing them STRONG no need to get fancy whatsoever.

Also of course I want to play higher and fully believe I can especially when I watch some of the dross in the early stages of Mastercash nights at 30NL lol but am currently building up gradually - at the moment 704bb's up over 3300 hands, just need more volume really.

DrSharp

Zed. Frickin perfick!!!!!!!!

One million percent improvement! well done bud. Keep it going.

AyrGraeme

In Response to Re: Ok guys. I think I've got it....:

Both 88 hands I prefer open limping, being reraised pre makes it awkward a la 3rd hand. Hit set win monies miss set have to cbet always with overs. KK I prefer 5x UTG, rest is standard.
Posted by Dudeskin8

A statement that makes little sense.  Why? Please explain.

He has been raising 4x with other hands why not with K/K.

If you said I prefer 5x any raise at 2p/4p cos you tend to get loose calls then fine.

I think if the amount you raise preflop is dependant on the strength of your hand then this is a major flaw in your game.  Granted not one which will be exposed too much at 2p/4p but there will still be players who pick up on it. 

AyrGraeme

In Response to Re: Ok guys. I think I've got it....:

You say raise 90% of time with 88 and of course at higher levels I wouldn't even think about limping but from playing recently hands like 77/88/99 seem strong but in reality you make your standard 4x (more likely 5x with me) then you have a 40p pot, you get your AQ5/K94/QJ2 flop etc then if you cbet a lot of the time you get called by any pair, if that beats 88 no more bets will 'scare them off', that concept doesn't exist here. So most the times I would just check back or open check if OOP and you get the half pot bet or similar then yes you could call and see if he slows down but that just seems to loose and a possible leak to me (which I always try and keep a check on), you could also possibly raise but that would be a bluff and bluffs are TERRIBAD down here so that option dissapears. However if you just limp you keep the pot smaller although obviously are SOLELY looking for sets, but if you did limp there will often be more people involved in the pot if you have a station table and hence a bigger chance someone has half a hand to stack off with. @grantorino - Well you don't get 3bet every hand lol but I just personally despise raising with a hand like 88/99 then getting reraised and trying to decide if it's worth set mining whereas limping reduces the raise size. Overall though maybe I'm just a too tight but at this level it's all about playing STRONG hands and playing them STRONG no need to get fancy whatsoever. Also of course I want to play higher and fully believe I can especially when I watch some of the dross in the early stages of Mastercash nights at 30NL lol but am currently building up gradually - at the moment 704bb's up over 3300 hands, just need more volume really.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Ah mate just realised by this post you are a regular at this level and by Doh's comments a good player at this level.  Raising more with your big hands prob wont be spotted.  In fact when I used to play 2p/4p I often raised to 75p/£1 with a big pair and usually got a caller and shoved any flop without an overcard and found it profitable.  Very extreme and dreadful play normally but it worked so I did it.  I was even more of a nit in them days but still people were happy to commit 25% of their stack pre against me.  At this level the majority of people cannot read the game so do what works.

If you ever do move up as Doh is trying to encourage I would ensure you either base your preflop raises on previous action or else make it totally random.  Basing it on hand strength will quickly be picked up by decent players.

ZedsDeadBa

In Response to Re: Ok guys. I think I've got it....:

Zed. Frickin perfick!!!!!!!! One million percent improvement! well done bud. Keep it going.
Posted by DrSharp

LOL, that was funny, thankyou.

In fact thanks to everyone for the encouragement, really goes a long way!

I don't mind getting slapped about the face and neck when I'm being a Berk if I know I'll get a pat on the back when the penny drops.

Regards,

Z.

Dudeskin8

LOL oh graeme, graeme, graeme the 5x raise has nout to do with the hand, it's just my standard raise at this level especially UTG then add a blind or 2 for every limper if I'm not UTG.

I find your strategy quite interesting about 75p-£1 raises then shove no overcard flops, I don't think that would work very often now as players despite being still fairly awful calling stations won't limp call that much lol, plus the obvious flaw that you're check/folding a lot of time after sticking in 25 bb's pre.

And on the moving up I'd say till I get to around 20NL/30NL I won't be at all worried about giving off any betting reads. I will admit right now I only play STRONG hands and play them STRONGLY, I say this all the time on here but am still gradually grinding up so clearly not many players read the posts lol.

Glenelg

In Response to Re: Ok guys. I think I've got it....:

LOL oh graeme, graeme, graeme the 5x raise has nout to do with the hand, it's just my standard raise at this level especially UTG then add a blind or 2 for every limper if I'm not UTG. I find your strategy quite interesting about 75p-£1 raises then shove no overcard flops, I don't think that would work very often now as players despite being still fairly awful calling stations won't limp call that much lol, plus the obvious flaw that you're check/folding a lot of time after sticking in 25 bb's pre. And on the moving up I'd say till I get to around 20NL/30NL I won't be at all worried about giving off any betting reads. I will admit right now I only play STRONG hands and play them STRONGLY, I say this all the time on here but am still gradually grinding up so clearly not many players read the posts lol.
Posted by Dudeskin8

I do!  I don't play cash YET! BUT I read EVERY post you (and a few others) put up and although it's taken me a while to understand the lingo your "strategy", i think, can be easily carried over to other aspects of the game.

Pad

P.S. WD ZED!