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100nl intersting hand

nmipeisnmipeis Member Posts: 43
edited June 2011 in The Poker Clinic
all streets open for discussion, all around unorthodox hand.

no need for background on villain as im sure most of u have played with him plenty.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
gerrard9 Small blind  £0.50 £0.50 £204.59
nmipeis Big blind  £1.00 £1.50 £153.99
  Your hole cards
  • 3
  • A
     
yezooni Fold     
Magic555 Fold     
cottlad Fold     
ScottMo1 Raise  £3.00 £4.50 £98.58
gerrard9 Call  £2.50 £7.00 £202.09
nmipeis Raise  £13.00 £20.00 £140.99
ScottMo1 Fold     
gerrard9 Call  £11.00 £31.00 £191.09
Flop
   
  • 2
  • A
  • 6
     
gerrard9 Check     
nmipeis Check     
Turn
   
  • 4
     
gerrard9 Bet  £13.00 £44.00 £178.09
nmipeis Call  £13.00 £57.00 £127.99
River
   
  • 3
     
gerrard9 Bet  £37.00 £94.00 £141.09
nmipeis Call  £37.00 £131.00 £90.99
gerrard9 Show
  • 4
  • 4
   
nmipeis Muck
  • 3
  • A
   
gerrard9 Win Three 4s £129.20  £270.29
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Comments

  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2011
    Preflop:  Not the kind of hand I particularly like to squeeze with but I don't hate it.  Is Scott opening a lot of buttons and G9 flatting a lot of these opens?  And are they both folding to pressure?  You need at least the first answer to be a yes for this to be anywhere near a good play.

    Flop:  I know you now have showdown versus a decent part of his range but we're still a way away from showdown and we still have a weak hand.  Knowing the villain I'm probably B/F this flop wanting to take it down here and now.  He's not going to have diamonds here probably ever so we're either giving him a free chance to hit a set or he has us crushed.  Find out quickly.

    Turn:  With your line as played (which I don't particularly like) I guess the call is ok-ish, I don't like it TBH but can see why.  But it is so important you are calling to reassess, speaking of which;

    River:  This is a cast iron fold versus this player IMO.  Every draw has come in and this villain is unlikely to be bluffing here.   Against this player it's a bad call with the rivered two pair because he's not betting bigger Aces here often, he's much more likely to be C/C.  I can see why you made it but I still hate this call.
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  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited June 2011
    vs him that river is an easy fold.  he is never bluffing nor betting there with stuff like AQ here.


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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited June 2011
    You can probably even fold turn against him tbh, I like pre and flop though.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited June 2011
    I'd prob bet flop, if he calls shutdown. if he goes over the top fold

    as played i was actually weary of flopped set but we have to bet to find out where we are at, looking at his hand he defo folds aswell i think you messed up here. dont mind your play pre, post i dont like any if im brutally honest.
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand:
    You can probably even fold turn against him tbh, I like pre and flop though.
    Posted by yb
    I don't mind the flop if, as you have stated, you are folding to any bet down the line.  I still prefer betting it as he has pocket pairs a lot more than aces here and he is not giving us any value down the line.  Just take it down here and don't let him see free cards IMO.
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand:
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand : I don't mind the flop if, as you have stated, you are folding to any bet down the line.  I still prefer betting it as he has pocket pairs a lot more than aces here and he is not giving us any value down the line.  Just take it down here and don't let him see free cards IMO.
    Posted by TommyD
    meh I think the benefits of protecting against a 2 outer on the turn are outweighed by the drawback that if we bet we basically fold out everything we beat and don't get better to fold unless we are willing to triple barrell to get him to fold stuff like AQ.
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  • nmipeisnmipeis Member Posts: 43
    edited June 2011
    a few thoughts from me.........

    scott has been opening plenty late pos and im yet to see any resistance to 3bets from him (smallish sample size tho didnt recognise him before this session) and gerrard has never ever flatted me oop when the orig raiser has passed so was not the outcome i expected.

    but since he did call i hashed together a rough range anf hands and decided he only does this with 22-JJ (but more weighted to 55-99 really) and aq,aj (possibly a weird ak but i doubt it). so vs this range on the flop betting doesnt seem to be the greatest idea as everytime we bet and he folds its coz he has only 2 outs ands thats a pretty safe hand to try and get a bluff out of. when we bet and he calls its bcoz he either has a set or a bigger A and therefore we are giving up/losing. and when he raises we are baked.

    the turn ive gotta call as i checked the flop to try and get a bluff out of his range even tho i know his range still includes some hands that beat me ive now gotton to the river vs a weaker overall range than i could of by betting the flop for about the same price as a cbet.

    the river was really close for me as i dont expect him to double barrell bluff me too often (i have never seen him do it at least) but betting so big on the diamond really does polarize his range to sets and bluffs (as he cannot have and diamond combos in his range coz Ad is on the board.) so the question is does he bluff in this spot often enuf more me to call? on reflection i think probably not, but it felt like he did at the time, ohh the joys of leveling urself............


    thoughts on logic?

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  • scotty77scotty77 Member Posts: 4,970
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand:
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand : meh I think the benefits of protecting against a 2 outer on the turn are outweighed by the drawback that if we bet we basically fold out everything we beat and don't get better to fold unless we are willing to triple barrell to get him to fold stuff like AQ.
    Posted by yb
    yh but also we aren't gonna be getting value from any hand that hes holding on later streets.

    say he ahd KQs then he could happily check fold on a K turn for example

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  • nmipeisnmipeis Member Posts: 43
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand:
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand : yh but also we aren't gonna be getting value from any hand that hes holding on later streets. say he ahd KQs then he could happily check fold on a K turn for example
    Posted by scotty77
    yer if it is the case that he wont find a bluff ever then checking the flop is a pretty fatal error. i guess u know his tendancies better than me so i cant argue  with that.
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand:
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand : yh but also we aren't gonna be getting value from any hand that hes holding on later streets. say he ahd KQs then he could happily check fold on a K turn for example
    Posted by scotty77
    yeah gerrard isnt paying us off with worse whatever we do, I just like checking the flop to save money the times he's ahead.
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand:
    In Response to Re: 100nl intersting hand : yeah gerrard isnt paying us off with worse whatever we do, I just like checking the flop to save money the times he's ahead.
    Posted by yb
    And that's why I stated I didn't mind either.  No draw back to folding out all weaker hands when we are never getting value from them anyway.  Either way works, just don't go giving him 2 streets of value when he goes ahead.
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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited June 2011
    you should be bettin the flop most the time here especially when you decided to  sqeeze with this hand. turn is defo a call after checking flop but river is always a fold for me .. he is NEVER value betting worse and not bluffin ever..


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  • offshootoffshoot Member Posts: 1,049
    edited June 2011
    open fold flop
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