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Next move?

Patching99Patching99 Member Posts: 446
edited June 2011 in The Poker Clinic
I'm up against X who I have come across at lower levels before and have these notes from a while back:
4x pf raise with AKo
2x pf raise wih 33
called 4x raise with J10, all in 3 bet on flop with 2 pair.

Is this an easy call? 

Oh and I know the preflop raise is too small so lets gloss over that!
lufcuk01 Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £6.90
Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £12.84
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
   
bignutz39 Call  £0.10 £0.25 £7.28
garkar61 Raise  £0.20 £0.45 £2.70
cancer2 Call  £0.20 £0.65 £7.63
Patching99 Raise  £0.60 £1.25 £13.80
lufcuk01 Fold     
Call  £0.50 £1.75 £12.34
bignutz39 Fold     
garkar61 Call  £0.40 £2.15 £2.30
cancer2 Call  £0.40 £2.55 £7.23
Flop
  
  • 3
  • 4
  • 9
   
XBet  £1.28 £3.83 £11.06
garkar61 All-in  £2.30 £6.13 £0.00
cancer2 Fold     
Patching99 Call  £2.30 £8.43 £11.50
Call  £1.02 £9.45 £10.04
Turn
  
  • J
   
All-in  £10.04 £19.49 £0.00
Patching99

Comments

  • corn_rat22corn_rat22 Member Posts: 144
    edited June 2011
    3 bet bigger pre for a start, what are you scared of on the turn? he probs has a pair and a FD, get them in ahead!
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited June 2011
    At least 80p preflop.

    After bet and all in on flop why are you not raising?

    For me raise flop get it in there or on turn.
  • AMYBRAMYBR Member Posts: 3,432
    edited June 2011
    With action in front on flop its a fold or stack committing 3bet (maybe Jam) for me, depending on table mates image.

    Pre flop you have the biggest stack.  I likely make it £1.2 to go, abusing peoples perception of that fact.  With the action in front I think you'll get a call.
  • HYPETINGHYPETING Member Posts: 253
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: Next move?:
    At least 80p preflop. After bet and all in on flop why are you not raising? For me raise flop get it in there or on turn.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    +1 to this. He could be shoving turn with FD easily.. Not losing to much there IMO.
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited June 2011
    I'm never flatting the flop, what are you hoping to come on the turn?
    Jam or Fold, preferably jam
  • silentbobsilentbob Member Posts: 2,137
    edited June 2011
    Pre I'm making it ~£1 (ish) here purely because I don't wanna go 4 way to a flop with queens.

    I'm definitely raising the flop. I make it ~£6 here. X should then know that if he wants to come along for the ride he's gonna have to be prepared to risk his stack. 

    As played I'm happy to stack off here. There's plenty of Jx hands that he's doing this with particularly if he's got draws too.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited June 2011
    Im really interested as to why everyone hates the flat on the flop.

    I prob call turn cos Im a station  but  if this guy is decent (your notes dont show anything terrible) I think we are beat a decent % of time. He donks 4way with 2 shortstacks in pot then overshoves blank turn in a dry pot, I think you see a set a lot
  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited June 2011
    Yes my money is a set here or he has a flush draw he would shove flop, top pair maybe but agin if he is shoving i feel he would do that on the flop as three way at this level.
    My money is on a set from the flop calling and waiting for safe card then shoving.
    4 way onto that flop is dangerous for your hand and when its low and your getting so much action you have to recognize the set is there and bring yourself to fold.
  • Patching99Patching99 Member Posts: 446
    edited June 2011

    I got a bit mixed up in this hand, probably thinking too much, I was happy to flat flop as I thought I was still ahaead at this point but then when they overpot the turn compared to the half pot on the flop I starting thinking i'm beat.  I got it right this time but is this bad long term.  By the way I almost never fold here.

    lufcuk01 Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £6.90
    Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £12.84
     Your hole cards
    • Q
    • Q
       
    bignutz39 Call  £0.10 £0.25 £7.28
    garkar61 Raise  £0.20 £0.45 £2.70
    cancer2 Call  £0.20 £0.65 £7.63
    Patching99 Raise  £0.60 £1.25 £13.80
    lufcuk01 Fold     
    Call  £0.50 £1.75 £12.34
    bignutz39 Fold     
    garkar61 Call  £0.40 £2.15 £2.30
    cancer2 Call  £0.40 £2.55 £7.23
    Flop
      
    • 3
    • 4
    • 9
       
    Bet  £1.28 £3.83 £11.06
    garkar61 All-in  £2.30 £6.13 £0.00
    cancer2 Fold     
    Patching99 Call  £2.30 £8.43 £11.50
    Call  £1.02 £9.45 £10.04
    Turn
      
    • J
       
    All-in  £10.04 £19.49 £0.00
    Patching99 Fold     
    Unmatched bet  £10.04 £9.45 £10.04
    Show
    • 9
    • 9
       
    garkar61 Show
    • 8
    • 8
       
    River
      
    • K
       
    XWin Three 9s £8.74  £18.78
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited June 2011
    Nah canny be folding there mate.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited June 2011
    In Response to Re: Next move?:
    Nah canny be folding there mate.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Why cant he? Give a realistic range of hands in villains range given action. Fwiw I think its close and it may be a call, but I cant see how everyone seems to think its a fistpump get it in
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited June 2011
    Well he's made a half pot bet on flop that could be anything then just called reraise all in.

    On turn he suddenly shoves all in I just can't see why he would do that with a set.

    In terms of hands something like AJ/KJ//QJ/J10 spades, even random Jacks without a spade draw.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited June 2011

    Dudeskin, I'll post a longer reply later have to go now but.

    1 What range does villain cold call a 3bet with players left to act

    2 What range does he donk flop 4way with?

    3 What range does he shove turn? Also turn shove is just over psb so I dont see why he wouldnt do it with a set

    The more I look at this the more I think turn is a fold

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited June 2011
    1. A strong draw overs plus FD.

    2. Same.

    3. Same but he has a jack in his hand.

    Obviously I'm not a great player by any stretch but I just don't think folding here is profitable long term, maybe it is but I'd need a lot more convincing.

    Also the flat call from Patching on flop confuses the whole matter as if I was playing a turn wouldn't even be seen.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited June 2011
    Mightnt have been clear but my first question was about pre.

    How do you think his entire range is draws? Surely he sometimes has sets, TT etc
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