20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?

GREGHOGG

My reads on villain are that he is fairly tight and his 3 betting range therefore will only normally be big hands.

I have been playing fairly loose so this is the perfect time to pick up aces. I know you are going to say, bet the flop, but i am happy to get it in on the flop (if he bets, and i think he probably will unless he has QQ) My question is regarding the turn/river.

Did i play this like a passive donk? over time will i lose money playing this cautious or did i play it spot on? (im hoping the latter!)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance92boi Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £34.53 saints01 Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £19.12   Your hole cards A A       debdobs_67 Fold     millster Fold     GREGHOGG Raise  £0.60 £0.90 £45.49 XXXRaise  £1.40 £2.30 £33.65 92boi Fold     saints01 Fold     GREGHOGG Raise  £4.20 £6.50 £41.29 XXXCall  £3.40 £9.90 £30.25 Flop    5 6 Q       GREGHOGG Check     XXXCheck     Turn    9       GREGHOGG Check     XXX Bet  £7.43 £17.33 £22.82 GREGHOGG Call  £7.43 £24.76 £33.86 River    K       GREGHOGG Check     XXXBet  £18.57 £43.33 £4.25 GREGHOGG Fold     XXX Show Q Q    XXXWin  £23.52  £27.77 XXX Return  £18.57 £1.24 £46.34

YOUNG_GUN

pre flop you played it well, I hate how you played it post flop

how many hands with the villain have you played? also how long had you both been at the table, was he playing his usual game?

I dont think i can fold here as generally ost people will stack of with AQ/AK here at nl20, i reckon he has AK

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?:

pre flop you played it well, I hate how you played it post flop how many hands with the villain have you played? also how long had you both been at the table, was he playing his usual game? I dont think i can fold here as generally ost people will stack of with AQ/AK here at nl20, i reckon he has AK
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

very few, if any.. He seemed fairly tight and therefore would normally have a narrow 3 betting range. not even sure if AK would be included!

Think we were both at the table for a while

i realise most would bet the flop and i normally would, but vs this villain i chose to take a different line. glad i did based on the result (he had QQ)

Oh and i fold the river cos i think he has to have QQ or KK alot of the time based on the pre-flop action.  

AMYBR

Nice of him to show.

I dont really see that there's a great deal wrong.  Dont even mind the check on the flop its pretty dry, if you've been coolered, you've been coolered, a free card here wont change a great deal with the pre flop action.

Its a very well diciplined fold, using opponents range especially well.

I think given your read and feel for opponent Its just about right.  I think you likely know you play the hand different vs a host of players, but the idea that every hand has to be played in a vacuum has never sat right with me.

percival09

As played I like the fold, as you say, you're not really beating much that he's gonna play this strong and this way with the image you have of villain.

What were your hopes on the flop? Were you hoping to c/r? Obv i think betting out is the best option, but mixing up your play is good, even c/c through the streets could have been an option, but that is usually a method for more aggressive opponents. 

With your check on the flop, I was fully expecting you to bet the turn tbh, I know you've basically narrowed his hand down to KK/QQ but you've totally under-repped your hand, if villain is capable of making moves he could be using his image to bluff you here, but obviously he wasn't if he showed QQ. But as played, after you've checked the turn, I like the flat, if you raise you're probably not going to get called by a worse hand, and villain is probz thinking you have AK because you've sorta played it that way, think he'd be surprised you had AA! But overall, don't really think too much is wrong here, wp for getting away.

Oh, and with your flat on the turn, were you going to call a river bet if the K didn't come?? JW

Dudeskin8

Gotta bet the flop for me, you have the betting lead so when you check it just looks fishy.

Having checked flop surely you must bet the turn, don't you want to win moniez ?

When you do check, he bets makes it £17.33 in the middle with £22 behind, I just shovle my stack into the middle here and get called by KK maybe JJ/1010.

AMYBR

Just as an aside gregghogg, you have good instincts in general from what I have seen.  You know in your own mind you'd be a fool to ignore them.

grantorino

what are your reads based on?

I might flat the 3bet pre, 4betting is fine but if your image is tight I probably prefer flatting as 4betting oop this deep looks superstrong

bet flop

Definitely bet turn

As played you can maybe fold but I hate how you got there and I prob call because I think he can have AK

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?:

As played I like the fold, as you say, you're not really beating much that he's gonna play this strong and this way with the image you have of villain. 1.What were your hopes on the flop? Were you hoping to c/r? Obv i think betting out is the best option, but mixing up your play is good, even c/c through the streets could have been an option, but that is usually a method for more aggressive opponents.  With your check on the flop, 2. I was fully expecting you to bet the turn tbh, I know you've basically narrowed his hand down to KK/QQ but you've totally under-repped your hand, if villain is capable of making moves he could be using his image to bluff you here, but obviously he wasn't if he showed QQ. But as played, after you've checked the turn, I like the flat, if you raise you're probably not going to get called by a worse hand, and villain is probz thinking you have AK because you've sorta played it that way, think he'd be surprised you had AA! But overall, don't really think too much is wrong here, wp for getting away. 3.  Oh, and with your flat on the turn, were you going to call a river bet if the K didn't come?? JW
Posted by percival09

1. Yes i c/r and get it in.  I dont think i can fold the flop. i think if he bets properly he gets my stack because i hope he has KK!) Him checking made me sus about QQ. but he probably doesnt bet because he doesnt think i will pay him off!

2. I didnt under rep my hand preflop. On the turn, if i bet and get raised, I am hating it cos he didnt bet the flop so i decide to c/c to keep things under control vs a passive villain. remember i have him on a narrow range. (perhaps this is my mistake and i should look to get it in??!)

3. I think I would have bet the river on a safish card. hopefully bet folded, but it woulda been tough!

grantorino

greg if you have him on QQ+ hes twice as likely to have KK than QQ on flop and turn and hesfolding almost never so just look to get it in

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?:

greg if you have him on QQ+ hes twice as likely to have KK than QQ on flop and turn and hesfolding almost never so just look to get it in
Posted by grantorino

my read wasnt 100% though, and i dont remember playing with him before, but he had basically done nothing apart from fold and be passive for many many hands! (musta been way over 50) therefore i had to assign a narrow range to his 3 bet. My eyes lit up when he 3 bet actually!! i was like please have QQ KK so you can call me!!

this is why i played the hand wierd!

but yes the vast majority of the time i am value betting the flop and turn, and looking to get it in vs the usual 20nl randoms.

also if he had KK he is most likely to bet the flop surely. but people do play wierd sometimes which is why i c/c turn.

In summary, playing OOP sucks, whether you have Aces or not!!

YOUNG_GUN

lol good fold didnt see he showed when posted earlier

i still agree with what i said earlier, ESPECIALLY as you said you havent played alot of hands with how can you narrow his range down to QQ/KK, how can you be sure he doesnt have AK here??

I would bet out flop also

The_Don90

Greg i like the way you played this hand, I have a great deal of respect for this ability you have to know when your beat holding a big hand and this is the kind of rewards it will give you.

I do prefer the lead on the flop in honesty but you got the information you wanted by checking it seems, and therefore that allows you to suss a narrow range to almost 1 hand.

Even the fact that you have him on KK/QQ and both have sets on the river aswell makes it a far easier fold IMO. Youve said this guy is SUPER NITTY so therefore, 100% WP from me mate.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?:

lol good fold didnt see he showed when posted earlier i still agree with what i said earlier, ESPECIALLY as you said you havent played alot of hands with how can you narrow his range down to QQ/KK, how can you be sure he doesnt have AK here?? I would bet out flop also
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

Im just having a re-read and that and i think we can rule XXX's range down to 4 hands

AA - Very Unlikley
AK - Possible
KK - Possible
QQ - Possible

Ive put AA as very unlikley due to HERO having Aces. So then we have 3 hands we're potentially playing v a SNIT and i think therefore Greg;s fold is profitable over time. IMO.

grantorino

Don if his range is AK,QQ+ river is a clear call
 
Greg I cant see why he cant check KK on flop. Yeah he might bet it, he might also bet QQ

The_Don90

grantorino your saying we have 4 possible hands, we split with 1, beat 1 and lose to 2. I make that less than 50% equity. therefore we gta fold imo.

grantorino

AA 1 combo
QQ 3combos
KK 3combos
AK 6 combos

Also we only need about 30% equity

We break even on the call and are getting more than 2/1. Now you can argue certain combos more likely than others etc, but weigthed equally its a hugely profitable call

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?:

AA 1 combo QQ 3combos KK 3combos AK 6 combos Also we only need about 30% equity We break even on the call and are getting more than 2/1. Now you can argue certain combos more likely than others etc, but weigthed equally its a hugely profitable call
Posted by grantorino

yea fair point. however who likley do you think he has AK here? according to greg hes folded the last 50 hands.

grantorino

I dont think greg said he folded last 50 hands

I think he has AK often enough to make the call the way the hand played out given the odds we are getting. He mighteven show up with worse an odd time given how weakly greg played hand postflop

The_Don90

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right?:

In Response to Re: 20nl, I hate folding AA...but sometimes you gotta! right? : my read wasnt 100% though, and i dont remember playing with him before, but he had basically done nothing apart from fold and be passive for many many hands! (musta been way over 50) therefore i had to assign a narrow range to his 3 bet. My eyes lit up when he 3 bet actually!! i was like please have QQ KK so you can call me!! this is why i played the hand wierd! but yes the vast majority of the time i am value betting the flop and turn, and looking to get it in vs the usual 20nl randoms. also if he had KK he is most likely to bet the flop surely. but people do play wierd sometimes which is why i c/c turn. In summary, playing OOP sucks, whether you have Aces or not!!
Posted by GREGHOGG

ok limp and fold for over 50.