Hands still gotta be good here has'nt it?

DrSharp

Am i still good here? Whats the move guys? Should i rep the flush? Player is a reg on these tables and the forum on occasion. Just seen them bluff a pot in the couple of hands previous and get a caller on the river to lose a 50bbish of his stack. I am new to table so dont know if they are slightly tilted or not.

Hand History #392489366 (13:25 16/07/2011)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
maz69	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.62
Shiver82	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.08
	Your hole cards	J J
God267	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£1.46
x	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£2.64
DrSharp	Raise		£0.24	£0.38	£3.70
ToonBoy76	Fold
maz69	Fold
Shiver82	Fold
God267	Call		£0.20	£0.58	£1.26
x	Raise		£0.40	£0.98	£2.24
DrSharp	Call		£0.20	£1.18	£3.50
God267	Call		£0.20	£1.38	£1.06
Flop
		3 Q 6
God267	Check
x	Bet		£0.60	£1.98	£1.64
DrSharp	Call		£0.60	£2.58	£2.90
God267	Fold
Turn
		4
x	Check
DrSharp??

Dudeskin8

Due to stack size of 'X' and the fact he's limped pre after a limper then made some bizarre minreraise I move all in pre.

If he's limping in here with AA/KK/QQ he is NOT a reg.

If I played it like you I fold flop.

DrSharp

Yeah, thought about the shove pre. I struggle with JJ to be perfectly honest and seem to lose all ins with em every time lol. Lack a bit of confidence in them and we are both reasonably deep. Shoving pre is probably correct. Can i turn my hand in to a semi bluff here though with a redraw for the flush now. Seen this player bluff before and the betting patterns didnt make much sense which made me feel like i was still ahead. Of course he could have the flush which makes it tricky to represent but is it ok to rep it on this occasion. Does it get through?

I got undone this week by someone limping with QQ at this level and he is a reg so it does happen, i'll find the hand if you like?

Dudeskin8

I wouldn't shove as bluff, check behind take free card imo.

Please show me the hand because he can't be very good if he is limping QQ pre.

DrSharp

I'll PM it you if thats ok mate?

Dudeskin8

Yep that's fine.

percival09

Don't be emotional with your hand lol! ''Lack a bit of confidence in them'' ... it's a hand, if you lose a flip you lose a flip, aslong as you're mathematically infront who cares / don't turn this into Deal or No Deal and people having feelings about their boxes .......

as for the hand posted, not sure at the level i play i'd get JJ in pre here, it's still over 50% of your stack and his limp/raise sort of suggests strength / but i'm no expert at this level, getting it in may be the right play

folding would be quite weak on flop / raising would be quite bad as youre only going to get called by a hand that beats you / calling sort of commits you to the hand imo but it's probz what i'd go for / not sure repping the flush is optimal at this level, from what i know bluffing is not recommended.. think check is good

after checking, you probz have to call a river bet / i assume if the guy had AA/KK he'd bet the turn regardless of the spade hitting / i think you have him beat

edit: if you think villain is tilting at all i think getting it in pre is fine

DrSharp

In Response to Re: Hands still gotta be good here has'nt it?:

Don't be emotional with your hand lol! ''Lack a bit of confidence in them'' ... it's a hand, if you lose a flip you lose a flip, aslong as you're mathematically infront who cares / don't turn this into Deal or No Deal and people having feelings about their boxes ....... as for the hand posted, not sure at the level i play i'd get JJ in pre here, it's still over 50% of your stack and his limp/raise sort of suggests strength / but i'm no expert at this level, getting it in may be the right play folding would be quite weak on flop / raising would be quite bad as youre only going to get called by a hand that beats you / calling sort of commits you to the hand imo but it's probz what i'd go for / not sure repping the flush is optimal at this level, from what i know bluffing is not recommended.. think check is good after checking, you probz have to call a river bet / i assume if the guy had AA/KK he'd bet the turn regardless of the spade hitting / i think you have him beat edit: if you think villain is tilting at all i think getting it in pre is fine
Posted by percival09

LMAO, i hate it when they do that. I meant that i seem to play jacks very aggressively but i often get burnt with them. I dont get 'involved' with my hands. lol.

His limp raise does represent strength, which is why i called. I have shoved with JJ in this situation before with limited success. I called the flop on the strength that villain does c-bet after raising pre flop. Possible float and having seen him bluff very recently to this hand just wanted to reevaluate on the turn. Now, if he hits the flush, he could check but with his aggression already under way why would he stop? I dunno, maybe i just couldnt make sense of the way he was playing this which obviously opened up a few options for me. Just thought i would ask the general thoughts on this. FWIW, i think he shoves the river if i check back!

Not sure if he is tilting as i had only been on this table for 3 or 4 hands. Looked a bit spewy on the previous bluff to me and this was very similar pattern.

Dudeskin8

Did you see what he had ?

debdobs_67

Im just sooo glad i dont play nl4 anymore xxx

Dudeskin8

NL4 is pretty easy tbh, like this for example probably wouldn't happen higher up -

However you also gotta be able to take the beats like a man.

Shaun_LCFC	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.56
RJMooro	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.29
	Your hole cards	J J
STOYLES	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£2.36
X	All-in		£8.78	£8.88	£0.00
Dudeskin8	All-in		£3.94	£12.82	£0.00
Shaun_LCFC	Fold
RJMooro	Fold
STOYLES	Fold
X	Unmatched bet		£4.84	£7.98	£4.84
X	Show	A 10
Dudeskin8	Show	J J
Flop
		8 10 8
Turn
		A
River
		6
X	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 10s	£7.38		£12.22

debdobs_67

yeah i do agree with you dude nl4 has to be played correctly and it IS crushable , however i dont agree you have to take the beats like a 'man' for obvious reasons xxx

DrSharp

In Response to Re: Hands still gotta be good here has'nt it?:

Did you see what he had ?
Posted by Dudeskin8

Yeah, i set him all-in! Was a real 50/50 decision. Thought i could bluff the flush, with enough equity on showdown with JJ and a further flush draw on the river to come to make this profitable over time. Dont know whether this was extremely spewy or using the info to come to a logical decision in my head! Probably spewy.

Anyone care to guess what he had? I'll post the result in a bit.

grantorino

Hand is played well so far. check back turn, call or vbet any river. I dont like shoving the turn

DrSharp

In Response to Re: Hands still gotta be good here has'nt it?:

Hand is played well so far. check back turn, call or vbet any river. I dont like shoving the turn
Posted by grantorino

Thanks for the reply. You say you call any river bet. His stack size in relation to the pot means he is shoving the river. I dont think pot control is viable in this situation as i am fairly sure that if i check behind the turn that he bets the river. I was happier putting the lot in now. I was fairly sure i was still good, but with the flushing board and possible outs still to come on the river i thought i could win the hand numerous ways by betting him off the hand or as i say, being ahead anyway.

If i am calling the river or v-betting the river, should'nt i just be getting it in first here. If he somehow has the queen, he could still fold putting me on the flush. Wanted to put the pressure on. Dunno really whether this is correct or not. Made sense to me at the time but when i looked back i thought it could be a bit loose, thats why i put it on here.

grantorino

well I think most hands you beat that call a shove would shove themselves, I doubt he ever folds better. Usually the range he shoves river with will be wider than what calls it off on turn, if he checks twice you are nearly always winning

DrSharp

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
maz69	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.62
Shiver82	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.08
	Your hole cards	J J
God267	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£1.46
x	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£2.64
DrSharp	Raise		£0.24	£0.38	£3.70
ToonBoy76	Fold
maz69	Fold
Shiver82	Fold
God267	Call		£0.20	£0.58	£1.26
x	Raise		£0.40	£0.98	£2.24
DrSharp	Call		£0.20	£1.18	£3.50
God267	Call		£0.20	£1.38	£1.06
Flop
		3 Q 6
God267	Check
x	Bet		£0.60	£1.98	£1.64
DrSharp	Call		£0.60	£2.58	£2.90
God267	Fold
Turn
		4
x	Check
DrSharp	Bet		£1.94	£4.52	£0.96
x	All-in		£1.64	£6.16	£0.00
DrSharp	Unmatched bet		£0.30	£5.86	£1.26
x	Show	K J
DrSharp	Show	J J
River
		A
DrSharp	Win	Flush to the Ace	£5.42

DrSharp

If i had checked back the turn and then the ace came and villain shoved it would be even trickier to call wouldnt it when you take into account the pre flop limp raise from villain?

Dudeskin8

LOL all this thinking, get it in pre man !

PiAnOpLaYa

In Response to Re: Hands still gotta be good here has'nt it?:

If i had checked back the turn and then the ace came and villain shoved it would be even trickier to call wouldnt it when you take into account the pre flop limp raise from villain?
Posted by DrSharp

You've just hit the 2nd nuts easy call surely?