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Daft to shove?

GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
edited July 2011 in The Poker Clinic
£1.10 DS was lying 24/50 - 83 runners.  Had not played many hands and when I got this thought I'd shove after "villain" raised!  Think I was ahead after flop! lol
Couple of aggro players on table!
Look after my chips dude!
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
WAYNE_1665 Small blind  75.00 75.00 19617.50
LEMOSPORTS Big blind  150.00 225.00 3465.00
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • A
     
scouse_red Fold     
Glenelg Raise  300.00 525.00 7197.50
Dudeskin8 Raise  900.00 1425.00 8451.00
big60 Fold     
WAYNE_1665 Fold     
LEMOSPORTS Fold     
Glenelg All-in  7197.50 8622.50 0.00
Dudeskin8 Call  6597.50 15220.00 1853.50
Glenelg Show
  • K
  • A
   
Dudeskin8 Show
  • Q
  • Q
   
Flop
   
  • 6
  • 9
  • 4
     
Turn
   
  • J
     
River
   
  • 9
     
Dudeskin8 Win Two Pairs, Queens and 9s 15220.00  17073.50
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited July 2011
    fold pre
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  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    fold pre
    Posted by grantorino
    WOW! really? Didn't expect that! Is that cos it's Dude raising or in general?
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited July 2011
    how often do you think dude folds to your shove?

    when he gets it in what do you think his range is?

    You are a bit shallower than I thought you were so you prob can call, but you are flipping at best. I think you prob have a big advantage over field so I would fold. Against an unknown I'm not folding
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  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    how often do you think dude folds to your shove? when he gets it in what do you think his range is? You are a bit shallower than I thought you were so you prob can call, but you are flipping at best. I think you prob have a big advantage over field so I would fold. Against an unknown I'm not folding
    Posted by grantorino
    To be fair I did think twice about shoving against Dude! I was gutted when the tables were arranged and he was on my left! GRRRR!
    When he got it in I put him on a pair qq,jj,1010 ? It did cross my mind he was squeezing!

    With this hand I reckon I flip EVERY time surely?

    I'm very keen to get his view tho.

    Thanks again GT.

    pad
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    how often do you think dude folds to your shove? when he gets it in what do you think his range is? You are a bit shallower than I thought you were so you prob can call, but you are flipping at best. I think you prob have a big advantage over field so I would fold. Against an unknown I'm not folding
    Posted by grantorino
    I honestly don't know if you're joking or not! lol I think you are! 

    O.P you played the hand fine in my opinion........ 

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited July 2011
    obv he sometimes has AA,KK. it depends what he does with JJ,TT he prob 3bets them in which case calling is ok
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited July 2011
    I think you played the hand fine UL
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited July 2011
    Well with QQ I'm obviously reraising you pre but because you only minraised UTG I would most likely reraise with 1010+ maybe 99 and AQ+ as that raise from you looks very weak and just trying to steal the blinds for the minimum.

    Also when you shove it was fairly obvious you had AK as doing that with AA/KK when there was less than 10 BB's in the middle would be very bad and I reckoned you might try it with JJ also plus the fact that against one opponent at this stage I'm NEVER folding QQ lol.

    At least you got a nice flop. :)
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove? : I honestly don't know if you're joking or not! lol I think you are!  O.P you played the hand fine in my opinion........  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Not joking

    I dont mind the call, I dont think a fold is that bad either. I think dudeskin does this with AQ hardly ever, I doubt its a bluff. If he does it with TT+, AK we have 43% equity, we can prob profitably get it in, but a folds not that bad here.

    Also dudeskin, why on earth would shoving with AA be bad here
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  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    Well with QQ I'm obviously reraising you pre but because you only minraised UTG I would most likely reraise with 1010+ maybe 99 and AQ+ as that raise from you looks very weak and just trying to steal the blinds for the minimum. Also when you shove it was fairly obvious you had AK as doing that with AA/KK when there was less than 10 BB's in the middle would be very bad and I reckoned you might try it with JJ also plus the fact that against one opponent at this stage I'm NEVER folding QQ lol. At least you got a nice flop. :)
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Thanks Dude and all. I'll watch out for that in future.

    pad
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67 Member Posts: 3,615
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove? : Not joking I dont mind the call, I dont think a fold is that bad either. I think dudeskin does this with AQ hardly ever, I doubt its a bluff. If he does it with TT+, AK we have 43% equity, we can prob profitably get it in, but a folds not that bad here. Also dudeskin, why on earth would shoving with AA be bad here
    Posted by grantorino
    Agreed i see no prob shoving with AA or KK in this spot , no prob at all xx
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove? : Not joking I dont mind the call, I dont think a fold is that bad either. I think dudeskin does this with AQ hardly ever, I doubt its a bluff. If he does it with TT+, AK we have 43% equity, we can prob profitably get it in, but a folds not that bad here. Also dudeskin, why on earth would shoving with AA be bad here
    Posted by grantorino
    I'd probably reraise to about 2000 to induce shove, I just think shoving only gets called by KK/QQ maybe JJ so lose value from bluffs. However I also get that shoving is a weaker move so shoving with AA might get a looser call.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited July 2011
    from what i know about dudes play his 3betting range is probz quite isolated in this position and the bottom of his range is probz JJ/AQ, saying that i don't think there's anything wrong with 4bet shoving, the best position you're probz gonna be in is a race, but i don't think that's too bad at this stage of the tourney, either get yourself right up there or be out

    i wouldn't say folding is really an option, calling would be ok i think with the stack sizes as they are, folding to a 3bet w/ AKs is too tight imo, but i deffo lean towards 4bet shoving or just 4betting because too get full value from AK you really need to see all 5 cards
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove? : I'd probably reraise to about 2000 to induce shove, I just think shoving only gets called by KK/QQ maybe JJ so lose value from bluffs. However I also get that shoving is a weaker move so shoving with AA might get a looser call.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    If the 3bet is a bluff, I doubt you are going to 5bet bluff shove if he 4bets unless there is some weird history, so really dont see much difference.

    Against a known taggy reg, when someone 3bets you from these positions its rarely a bluff and when you get it in with AK you are not going to be much better than a flip against their range, in some cases a significant dog against their range. Im not going to criticise anyone for stacking off with AK with these kind of stacks, but I think folding is an option, especially if you feel you have a big edge over field
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  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove?:
    In Response to Re: Daft to shove? : If the 3bet is a bluff, I doubt you are going to 5bet bluff shove if he 4bets unless there is some weird history, so really dont see much difference. Against a known taggy reg, when someone 3bets you from these positions its rarely a bluff and when you get it in with AK you are not going to be much better than a flip against their range, in some cases a significant dog against their range. Im not going to criticise anyone for stacking off with AK with these kind of stacks, but I think folding is an option, especially if you feel you have a big edge over field
    Posted by grantorino
    I suppose the way the game played from the start it was obvs to me that I had to be VERY patient and make the best of my premium hands.  I got caught with hand in cookie jar once earlier (just noticed/remembered when I looked back today!) 

    I do think in DS tourneys you can be patient and only need a couple of double-ups to be in top 10 when blinds get HIGH!

    Many it's my strategy that's dubious?

    pad
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