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Does he have the ace?

DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
edited July 2011 in The Poker Clinic
As it says on the tin. Newish (10 mins or so) to table, villain seems fairly standard so far. Have had a run of some decent hands pre flop (broadway hole cards) and my table image must be along the lines of i raise pre flop pretty much every hand on a limpathon table and probably any two in position, even though i usually have a raisable hand. I get the feeling this guy has had enough of me, he has started to play back at me a bit, three betting me pre flop and forcing me to fold once or twice. Basically should i be calling the flop and turn knowing this guy is getting pretty frustrated at the pressure i am putting on the table.

Hand History #395270980 (11:34 24/07/2011)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
dotsmum Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £0.62
ROZO Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £4.96
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • 10
     
AJ_Rockets Fold     
xRaise  £0.08 £0.14 £3.85
luks333 Call  £0.08 £0.22 £4.16
DrSharp Raise  £0.40 £0.62 £3.38
dotsmum Fold     
ROZO Fold     
xCall  £0.32 £0.94 £3.53
luks333 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 9
  • A
  • 8
     
xBet  £0.47 £1.41 £3.06
DrSharp Call  £0.47 £1.88 £2.91
Turn
   
  • 6
     
xAll-in  £3.06 £4.94 £0.00
DrSharp ??
My thinking on the hand is as follows. If he had the ace he wouldnt shove would he? He would want me to call would'nt he? By shoving, is he basically telling me that he has'nt got the ace? Cant put him on a straight after my pre flop raise, could he have JJ or QQ here? Has the flush hit? If it has, he surely doesnt shove it unless maybe he has a teeny weeny flush, he would be betting for value wouldnt he? The thing is, its 4NL, where players are bad enough to shove as soon as they hit a monster or good enough if you know what i mean. Funny spot, knowing the info given, what do you do and why?
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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited July 2011
    LOL danny over think this much at NL4.

    I might just call on button.

    Snap fold flop like a good nit.

    For the record when I hit TP at this level I always bet out like this it's called getting paid for big hands. :)
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  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited July 2011
    who's Danny? ;-)
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited July 2011
    hate the 3-bet pre, you must know NL4 players have no fold button, even if they did i wouldn't like it, are you raising for value? if so i take it you would call a shove? much prefer flatting!
    as played i don't mind the flop call, although fold is better and i'm deffo folding turn
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  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    hate the 3-bet pre, you must know NL4 players have no fold button, even if they did i wouldn't like it, are you raising for value? if so i take it you would call a shove? much prefer flatting! as played i don't mind the flop call, although fold is better and i'm deffo folding turn
    Posted by percival09

    You dont pop it up from the button pre flop with pocket 10's? Maybe i am a bit too aggro then when playing cash. I probably call with 8,8 or lower pocket pairs but i honestly thought with 10,10 you should always pop it up, especially with min raise, call etc. I am normally well in front at this stage arent i? I always want as much money in the pot as possible when i think i am in front dont i? Set mining with pocket 10's is fairly tight isnt it or have i just missed something? No offence meant, i am still very inexperienced and always willing to learn off you guys.

    Still learning loads from this forum, is this too aggro? If it is i am genuinely shocked.

    Yeah, i do call the shove pre flop if he does it as he has started to play back at me a bit and could be doing it with a lot worse.

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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace? : You dont pop it up from the button pre flop with pocket 10's? Maybe i am a bit too aggro then when playing cash. I probably call with 8,8 or lower pocket pairs but i honestly thought with 10,10 you should always pop it up, especially with min raise, call etc. I am normally well in front at this stage arent i? I always want as much money in the pot as possible when i think i am in front dont i? Set mining with pocket 10's is fairly tight isnt it or have i just missed something? No offence meant, i am still very inexperienced and always willing to learn off you guys. Still learning loads from this forum, is this too aggro? If it is i am genuinely shocked. Yeah, i do call the shove pre flop if he does it as he has started to play back at me a bit and could be doing it with a lot worse.
    Posted by DrSharp
    I'm not saying don't do it occasionally, but you're sort of turning your hand into a bluff, you aren't really going to get called by a worse hand 3betting, and if they 4bet you probz have to fold, whereas if you just flat call you're keeping all worst hands in and you can extract more value! I'm not saying it's too aggro but i'm just saying calling is a more profitable approach imo

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  • jgnjgn Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2011
    tbh im not worried about about the ace im worried about the flush 
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited July 2011
    I like the 3bet as long as we are 3b/folding, generally people at 4nl can call 3bets with far worse and have a very thin 4betting range, so there's loads of value in 3betting here. Also playing for a bigger pot in position is usually a good thing.

    Fold turn.
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    tbh im not worried about about the ace im worried about the flush 
    Posted by jgn
    how can you possibly know this from the information given?
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace? : You dont pop it up from the button pre flop with pocket 10's? Maybe i am a bit too aggro then when playing cash. I probably call with 8,8 or lower pocket pairs but i honestly thought with 10,10 you should always pop it up, especially with min raise, call etc. I am normally well in front at this stage arent i? I always want as much money in the pot as possible when i think i am in front dont i? Set mining with pocket 10's is fairly tight isnt it or have i just missed something? No offence meant, i am still very inexperienced and always willing to learn off you guys. Still learning loads from this forum, is this too aggro? If it is i am genuinely shocked. Yeah, i do call the shove pre flop if he does it as he has started to play back at me a bit and could be doing it with a lot worse.
    Posted by DrSharp
    Just because you are ahead doesnt always mean you can raise for value

    Set mining would be pretty tight, but if you flat you shouldnt be just setmining

    I think the 3bet pre is prob fine, but you need to think about the range he calls and the range he shoves before deciding if a 3bet is the right play. TT is not a hand you should be always 3betting. Fold flop imo, unless you have a read he only fires once or are intending calling down a lot
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited July 2011
    So many hands beating you so I think you fold
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  • PiAnOpLaYaPiAnOpLaYa Member Posts: 554
    edited July 2011
    i think you should call - your only 1 card away from a straight flush =)
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67 Member Posts: 3,615
    edited July 2011
    Im callin and praying hes only on a draw OR is hoping i fold + i may have outs still if i am behind. In honesty tho i prob fold pre anyway after the raise came at me ;

    EDIT ignore the last bit i read the op wrongly lolz xx
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  • jgnjgn Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace? : how can you possibly know this from the information given?
    Posted by yb
    the reason why i THINK this because when i started playing poker about 2 years ago at these levels and this is how i would of played a flush i no u probs will disgree yb its just thats what i thnk
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited July 2011
    easiest fold ive ever seen
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  • WilhelmWilhelm Member Posts: 1,730
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    easiest fold ive ever seen
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    BUT HE HAS A STRAIGHT FLUSH DRAW!!!
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  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace? : BUT HE HAS A STRAIGHT FLUSH DRAW!!!
    Posted by Wilhelm
    +1!

    7d RNG FTW!
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  • 37463746 Member Posts: 24
    edited July 2011
    str8 flush draw with 1 card to come, i pray i get u people at my table with ur thinking, ild have a field day calling 10 10, on A high flushing straightening set looking board. please come to my table
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  • jgnjgn Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    str8 flush draw with 1 card to come, i pray i get u people at my table with ur thinking, ild have a field day calling 10 10, on A high flushing straightening set looking board. please come to my table
    Posted by 3746
    lmao
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  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited July 2011
    He has the ace and his ace is the diamond
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  • PiAnOpLaYaPiAnOpLaYa Member Posts: 554
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: Does he have the ace?:
    str8 flush draw with 1 card to come, i pray i get u people at my table with ur thinking, ild have a field day calling 10 10, on A high flushing straightening set looking board. please come to my table
    Posted by 3746
    whats tables do you play at?
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