Line check. Do i fire again on the river or just check behind?

DrSharp

In this situation, should i be betting for value or checking behind. If i was first to act i probably fire a cheeky little half potter in but with position should i be checking behind? Am i only getting called by a hand that beats me if i fire again?

Hand History #402288873 (15:03 13/08/2011)

Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
x	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.82
method2k9	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.67
	Your hole cards	A K
xxstoned	Fold
jmtannfox	Fold
DrSharp	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£3.76
ralitsa	Fold
x	Call		£0.14	£0.36	£2.68
method2k9	Fold
Flop
		Q 8 A
x	Check
DrSharp	Bet		£0.36	£0.72	£3.40
x	Call		£0.36	£1.08	£2.32
Turn
		K
x	Check
DrSharp	Bet		£0.81	£1.89	£2.59
x	Call		£0.81	£2.70	£1.51
River
		10
x	Check
DrSharp	?????

AMYBR

I check behind simply because there are so few hands a sane person would pay you off with for a vb that would make it worth it, plus is so easily going to be a c/r situation that your going to hate, because of his stack he will only shove and you'll pretty much have to call.

Dudeskin8

Stick him in, there's no way he's checking the nuts there.

percival09

Problem is with sticking him all in, as often as you might have the best hand here, how often are you going to get called by a hand you beat? you can't b/f so i'd probz check behind

DOHHHHHHH

I would shove also. 

grantorino

I think you can shove, I would thinlk you get called by worse 2 pair enough

walesboy

i know you are possibly losing value here but i would also check here. AJ or QQ are all possible.
as are a busted flush draw or just top pair! checking might give you information that is worth more in long run?
I've seen quite alot of this check calling recently even on river. no idea why. maybe he has the read that if you hit you bet?

any reads on him? is he likely to call with top pair only?

btw Amybr - who said any of us at nl4 are sane!! DrSharp excepted of course!!! 

AMYBR

LnarinOO

i would check behind..! its down to simple math and all u hav to work out is weather u ahead of 50% of his callin range..!! i dont think we are so its a clear check.. 

DrSharp

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
x	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.82
method2k9	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.67
	Your hole cards	A K
xxstoned	Fold
jmtannfox	Fold
DrSharp	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£3.76
ralitsa	Fold
x	Call		£0.14	£0.36	£2.68
method2k9	Fold
Flop
		Q 8 A
x	Check
DrSharp	Bet		£0.36	£0.72	£3.40
x	Call		£0.36	£1.08	£2.32
Turn
		K
x	Check
DrSharp	Bet		£0.81	£1.89	£2.59
x	Call		£0.81	£2.70	£1.51
River
		10
x	Check
DrSharp	Check
x	Show	Q 10
DrSharp	Show	A K
DrSharp	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and Kings	£2.49

Might he have called a small value bet on the end?

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Line check. Do i fire again on the river or just check behind?:

Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance x Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £2.82 method2k9 Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £1.67   Your hole cards A K       xxstoned Fold         jmtannfox Fold         DrSharp Raise   £0.16 £0.22 £3.76 ralitsa Fold         x Call   £0.14 £0.36 £2.68 method2k9 Fold         Flop     Q 8 A       x Check         DrSharp Bet   £0.36 £0.72 £3.40 x Call   £0.36 £1.08 £2.32 Turn     K       x Check         DrSharp Bet   £0.81 £1.89 £2.59 x Call   £0.81 £2.70 £1.51 River     10       x Check         DrSharp Check         x Show Q 10       DrSharp Show A K       DrSharp Win Two Pairs, Aces and Kings £2.49 Might he have called a small value bet on the end?
Posted by DrSharp

He would have called the lot off.

Once he checks the river he almost never has the nuts. Which means we're almost always ahead.

Dudeskin8

LOL this is why we bet ALL IN on river as early stated.

DrSharp

Thats why i posted this hand, it did my nut in when he showed. I thought i could of got more out of him, but i am trying a book at the moment and it leans on me to check this behind on a board like this. 

On a seperate issue, same hand but he bets in to me on the river, what do i do then, sigh call?

(Oh, and DOHHHHHH, i think your bet on Leeds being promoted's gone a bit pete tong already mate unfortunately!:-()

AMYBR

He would have called a smallish bet, but if we are talking about playing this hand over sample its always going to be a check behind for me, mainly due to his stack size

I dont think he calls allin, if he does he's ..well choose a word

Easy to say we all said Allin in on river Dude skin, but his range is pretty often going to be a J or 2 spades with a Jack.  Going to feel pretty daft when being snapped, first thing your going to say to yourself is"............**** knew I should have checked back" lol.

I dont see any value in betting river.  Opponent is only really going to be calling/shoving when beating you IMO.  If he doesnt have you beat he folds significant action.  Without a cast iron read extracting value with 4 to a straight out is never that good an idea.

Dudeskin8

If he bets into you fairly strong it's a fold but with £1.51 behind any bet would be all in and then you have to fold.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Line check. Do i fire again on the river or just check behind?:

Thats why i posted this hand, it did my nut in when he showed. I thought i could of got more out of him, but i am trying a book at the moment and it leans on me to check this behind on a board like this.  On a seperate issue, same hand but he bets in to me on the river, what do i do then, sigh call? (Oh, and DOHHHHHH, i think your bet on Leeds being promoted's gone a bit pete tong already mate unfortunately!:-()
Posted by DrSharp

See if he bets the river I'd say he has the nuts most of the time, so we're never ahead.

Spose it depends what price he gives us, but fold to most bets.

And yeh wtf is happening at Leeds, those 2 suspensions arent gonna help either.

3 good things to come out of their start though.

1) it's early enough in the season for me to get another bet on....

2) it's now 6 points that Donny might have a chance of getting this season, as before the start I thought we'd be lucky to get 1 outta 6 off Leeds!

3) it looks like there might be 1 more potential relegation candidate to maybe save my team from the drop!

Keep the faith!!! - We've drawn u in't cup too. Plz knock us out. ty! 

pr1nnyraid

thin value, 1/3 pot bet (with intention of bet/fold)
dont forget how poker works, he sighs at the river and more so at your excrutiatingly obvious value bet, then goes into the tank and tries to find any hand he can beat, he finds one, then makes the call.

i understand this could be exploited but i seriously doubt this guy is going to turn his hand into a c/r bluff often at this level.

grantorino

Against a good player its a check back

Against most 4NL players its a vbet, even though you will get a lot of folds. They will often lead with a jack though so you are ahead enough when they call. With stacks I cant see any other betsize than a shove