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Sweat my opponents hand.

MohicanMohican Member Posts: 1,435
edited August 2011 in The Poker Clinic
evacuee39 Small blind
40.00 40.00 7321.26
Ozzie08 Big blind   80.00 120.00 3690.00
           
made4game Call   80.00 200.00 4176.24
ineverfold Fold        
Mohican Call   80.00 280.00 6790.00
evacuee39 Fold        
Ozzie08 Check        
Flop
   
  • K
  • 8
  • 4
     
Ozzie08 Check        
made4game Bet   140.00 420.00 4036.24
Mohican Raise   320.00 740.00 6470.00
Ozzie08 Fold        
made4game Call   180.00 920.00 3856.24
Turn
   
  • 7
     
made4game Check        
Mohican Bet   460.00 1380.00 6010.00
made4game Call   460.00 1840.00 3396.24
River
   
  • 2
     
made4game Bet   920.00 2760.00 2476.24
Mohican All-in   6010.00 8770.00 0.00
made4game All-in   2476.24 11246.24 0.00
Mohican Unmatched bet   2613.76 8632.48 2613.76
made4game Show
  • J
  • K
     
           
           

Comments

  • MohicanMohican Member Posts: 1,435
    edited August 2011
    What do you put me on?
    I'll post full hand later
    p.s. time bar nearly expired before he called.
  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sweay my opponents hand.:
    What do you put me on? I'll post full hand later p.s. time bar nearly expired before he called.
    Posted by Mohican
    KK obvs?
  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011
    Pocket 4s or A8 of spades.
  • AcidMan27AcidMan27 Member Posts: 3,752
    edited August 2011
    I'm thinking pocket 4's too.

    Maybe pocket 8's although you may raise them pre.

    Another king maybe ?
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2011
    whatever you have you took quite a weird line, almost min raising the flop bet and then half potting the turn, so at this point you don't seem toooo strong because it doesn't look like your playing for stacks with your bet sizing, and then to shove over what looks like a value bet is quite strange! You're either very strong, as in V.V.V strong, and in which case, your bet sizing is bad ... or you're bluffing .. and imo you're bluffing

    edit: i'm not sure whether you'd bluff in a 3way pot on the flop after only limping, meh, probz a set ... but still bet sizing isnt too good
  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited August 2011
    8 4 o/s
    or pocket 2's prob pocket 2's
  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand.:
    whatever you have you took quite a weird line, almost min raising the flop bet and then half potting the turn, so at this point you don't seem toooo strong because it doesn't look like your playing for stacks with your bet sizing, and then to shove over what looks like a value bet is quite strange! You're either very strong, as in V.V.V strong, and in which case, your bet sizing is bad ... or you're bluffing .. and imo you're bluffing
    Posted by percival09

    Would he not do this with KK? Surely the bet sizing is perfect in NOT scaring the customer off?
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand.:
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand. : Would he not do this with KK? Surely the bet sizing is perfect in NOT scaring the customer off?
    Posted by Glenelg
    firstly he'd raise pre with KK
    if he has a hand that strong, he should definitely raise bigger on the flop, and bet bigger on the turn, firstly not to give villain the odds to draw, and to allow hero to put villain all in comfortably on the river
  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand.:
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand. : firstly he'd raise pre with KK if he has a hand that strong, he should definitely raise bigger on the flop, and bet bigger on the turn, firstly not to give villain the odds to draw, and to allow hero to put villain all in comfortably on the river
    Posted by percival09
    Good point! Hadn't noticed that. :-(
  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited August 2011
    5s6s, 44 or a bluff
  • CodexCodex Member Posts: 211
    edited August 2011
    87

    bet sizing is weird, i think 87 makes most sense but could easily be bluff or 65
  • jams88jams88 Member Posts: 694
    edited August 2011
    im thinking 4's or 8's and you hit the set on the flop?
  • MohicanMohican Member Posts: 1,435
    edited August 2011
    Time to fess up.
    evacuee39 Small blind
    40.00 40.00 7321.26
    Ozzie08 Big blind   80.00 120.00 3690.00
      Your hole cards
    • 6
    • 7
         
    made4game Call   80.00 200.00 4176.24
    ineverfold Fold        
    Mohican Call   80.00 280.00 6790.00
    evacuee39 Fold        
    Ozzie08 Check        
    Flop
       
    • K
    • 8
    • 4
         
    Ozzie08 Check        
    made4game Bet   140.00 420.00 4036.24
    Mohican Raise   320.00 740.00 6470.00
    Ozzie08 Fold        
    made4game Call   180.00 920.00 3856.24
    Turn
       
    • 7
         
    made4game Check        
    Mohican Bet   460.00 1380.00 6010.00
    made4game Call   460.00 1840.00 3396.24
    River
       
    • 2
         
    made4game Bet   920.00 2760.00 2476.24
    Mohican All-in   6010.00 8770.00 0.00
    made4game All-in   2476.24 11246.24 0.00
    Mohican Unmatched bet   2613.76 8632.48 2613.76
    made4game Show
    • J
    • K
         
    Mohican Show
    • 6
    • 7
         
    made4game Win Pair of Kings 8632.48   8632.48
    Things I would've/should've done differently:
    reraise flop more. Probably tried to make three times his raise but had socks on so couldn't count properly.
    Raise turn more. As Percival says,the all in is more comfortable on the river.But any reraise on the river is almost putting him all in anyway.
    I'm happy with what I was trying to achieve but perhaps my bet sizing needs to be worked on a little and he nearly folded, so with a few tweaks I'll get this sort of play through next time.
    Thanks for your inputs on this chaps.
  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand.:
               Things I would've/should've done differently: reraise flop more. Probably tried to make three times his raise but had socks on so couldn't count properly. Raise turn more. As Percival says,the all in is more comfortable on the river.But any reraise on the river is almost putting him all in anyway. I'm happy with what I was trying to achieve but perhaps my bet sizing needs to be worked on a little and he nearly folded, so with a few tweaks I'll get this sort of play through next time. Thanks for your inputs on this chaps.
    Posted by Mohican
    Don't try and bluff players that don't like to fold. I'm not saying that just because I have seen the result of the hand, but I know this player has a hard time folding just from experience.

    If you also knew this, you should never have continued on the turn, and deffo not when he bets the river.

    If you didn't know this, you should have waited until you had more of a feel for the way he plays.

    Make sure you know your man, you were fighting a losing battle from the start here.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2011
    asking for analysis on a hand like this without reads or history is a little absurd

    raise pre if you are playing, no matter what you have imo

    Fold flop readless, if you want to raise make it bigger.

    Turn is basically a blank I prob check back.

    Fold river, when he donks it I think he's usually strong. Your hand looks like a set or missed draw of some sort

  • MohicanMohican Member Posts: 1,435
    edited August 2011

    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand.:
    asking for analysis on a hand like this without reads or history is a little absurd raise pre if you are playing, no matter what you have imo Fold flop readless, if you want to raise make it bigger. Turn is basically a blank I prob check back. Fold river, when he donks it I think he's usually strong. Your hand looks like a set or missed draw of some sort
    Posted by grantorino
    The reason I did it this way was to see if I'd told a convincing enough story through the hand that it's going to get a fold from most people.As Dohhhhhhhhh has pointed out the fella has a hard time folding top pair.
    FWIW I after he's checked the turn, I took it as a sign of weakness which is why I bet(should've been more).With him leading the river, my thought was that this was the most he could afford to lose if I called whilst being big enough to possibly get a fold.
     I don't often post hands as normally I know why I've lost but this one I needed other people's views.
    As always, fellow players provide a different perspective  and it's something I'll try to remember in the future if I make similar plays.
    Thanks for the input, poker is a continual learning curve.
  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited August 2011

    to me there are lots of mistakes here. i dont understand why you seem so intent to make this pot so big

    pre flop - raise.  you have a good player in the bb who you would be better off getting out of the hand.  also you can squeeze villain of weaker hands.

    flop - your reraise is so small that it doesnt allow you to identify much about his hand.  we can only really eliminate air from his range.  he could make the call with an 8 or many of the possible draws.

    turn - bet is too small.  are you expecting him to fold a king to that bet?  he has every reason to think he is ahead but also it is not expensive for him to re evaluate on the river.

    river - when he leads you know you arent ever ahead.  why are you trying to make things so tricky?  just fold and play the next hand.  you dont need to win every hand youre involved in.

    you put your opponet to a tough decision on the river but there was no need to do it

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand.:
    In Response to Re: Sweat my opponents hand. : The reason I did it this way was to see if I'd told a convincing enough story through the hand that it's going to get a fold from most people.As Dohhhhhhhhh has pointed out the fella has a hard time folding top pair. FWIW I after he's checked the turn, I took it as a sign of weakness which is why I bet(should've been more).With him leading the river, my thought was that this was the most he could afford to lose if I called whilst being big enough to possibly get a fold.  I don't often post hands as normally I know why I've lost but this one I needed other people's views. As always, fellow players provide a different perspective  and it's something I'll try to remember in the future if I make similar plays. Thanks for the input, poker is a continual learning curve.
    Posted by Mohican
    Well, we are trying to analyse a hand where you bluffed 3 streets. Whether this is good or bad depends on your reads on villain and also how villain likely perceives you. Without knowing this its pretty difficult to say whether i like it or not. If you have a read at time of hand that he calls light then I think its bad. Readless I dont like it either

    He bets a limped pot 3 way with a player still to act, which indicates he prob has something. You raise, he calls, which means he prob has a draw or at least a king, but again depends on reads. When he checks turn I wouldnt read it as weakness, its pretty standard after he flats flop raise, I prob check back because 7 doesnt change much. His river donk is weird, when I see a hand go like this its more often strength than weakness. maybe he should fold to your shove, but you should have 44,88 or a missed draw and your sizing looks more like a draw imo (also he surely expects 88 to raise pre sometimes). Alternatively, he may not be thinking about any of this he may just think I have tp all inz 
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