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T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?

The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
edited August 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Debating this hand with JJ, im pretty annoyed at it as i believe i can fold here. He disagrees, so looking for the clinics view.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
The_Don90 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £5.07
aBig blind  £0.04 £0.06 £3.77
 Your hole cards
  • J
  • Q
   
WALTERCOO Call  £0.04 £0.10 £2.39
acemachine Fold     
xCall  £0.04 £0.14 £2.83
The_Don90 Call  £0.02 £0.16 £5.05
aCheck     
Flop
  
  • Q
  • 9
  • J
   
The_Don90 Bet  £0.16 £0.32 £4.89
aRaise  £0.52 £0.84 £3.25
WALTERCOO Call  £0.52 £1.36 £1.87
xCall  £0.52 £1.88 £2.31
The_Don90 Call  £0.36 £2.24 £4.53
Turn
  
  • 6
   
The_Don90 Check     
aBet  £1.68 £3.92 £1.57
WALTERCOO Fold     
xCall  £1.68 £5.60 £0.63
The_Don90 ?????
Opponent whos doing the betting is seriously tight. The other guy could have anything from 92+. The call from me on the flop is due to me suspecting im behind and im trying to fill up with great odds.
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited August 2011
    shove flop
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011

    NL4

    against 75xbb stack

    top 2 pairs

    =



    THIS

    Pot controlling top 2 at this level on a wet board is just madness imo, and you're over complicating it again.

    -----------------------------

    This isn't the UKIPT, you are up against some of the worst cash players you can find anywhere in the world of online poker. 

    Stop giving them so much respect and credit.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2011
    I agree, shove flop.

    Either way, there's no way you can fold at this level. Top 2 pair is gold dust here.

    I seen your diary, this is the one where he's got 810 and flopped the straight, right? If it is, that shouldn't affect how you play this situation in future.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited August 2011
    Shove flop imo if you can when back round to you? if not  shove turn
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?:
    Shove flop imo if you can when back round to you? if not  shove turn
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    lol why on earth wouldn't you be allowed to shove? :s
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?:
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold? : lol why on earth wouldn't you be allowed to shove? :s
    Posted by yb
    Dunno software glitch lol i thought sometimes it doesn't let you raise but forget when

    I have said on twit dont ever fold 2 pair at nl4 agreed?
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  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?:
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold? : Dunno software glitch lol i thought sometimes it doesn't let you raise but forget when I have said on twit dont ever fold 2 pair at nl4 agreed?
    Posted by YOUNG_GUN
    nah that only happens when its an under-raise when someone is all-in

    erm I wouldn't go that far, if the turn was a ten I could fold it but i'm definitely never folding here!
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2011
    relatively straight forward hand at this level
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited August 2011
    I'm going to disagree here with pretty much everyone and say you could of folded this.
    Don says this guy is a really right player - unlikely hes raising into 4 people on that flop with less then 2 pair, so our hand is only beating q9 or j9, he got a free check in the bb so 10 8/K 10 is definately a plausible hand here and its very unlikely that the guys doing this with an overpair as villian will be raising 95% of the time pre flop.

    Just because its 4nl doesn't mean we drop all our instincts and stack off even though we think we are behind.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2011
    get it in,  a small percentage of the time they will show you the str

    Listen to Dohhhh - he says do not overcomplicate it or give them too much credit, there's a lot hands they will be doing this with that you beat - 
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2011
    I doubt I ever fold this, but if your read is that hes really tight is over a lot of hands (not an hours worth etc), I can only see him having 2pr+ here. Maybe also pair +oesd hands. You lead 4way for pot in a limped pot and he raises with 2 fish still to act. Thats pretty strong. You are looking at 99, 2pr or straight usually, and we dont fare that well against that range. Depends how strong your read is and how he plays combodraws

    with your reads on villains I think you should raise pre
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011

    Just seen who the villain was from your diary thread.

    He isn't tight. 

    He will be playing tighter than usual as he's at nl4, and will have adapted, but is wider than just a straight here!!
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?:
    Just seen who the villain was from your diary thread. He isn't tight.  He will be playing tighter than usual as he's at nl4, and will have adapted, but is wider than just a straight here!!
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    what do you think he raises flop with? Just interested, would think its pretty narrow if hes not a fish, even if hes not ubertight
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited August 2011
    Hmm, I'm wondering what this villian is doing down at 4nl as he was multing 50nl within the last week :s
    Anyway ya unless he tightened up a lot I prob stack vs him too.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011
    Id say he has 2 pairs, or a straight or queen 10.

    Could be overplaying 9T or TJ or I spose even KQ or something, he's always been aggressive when I've played him.

    He would raise pre with all sets.

    Also this is a completely random thought, I wouldn't know either way as I don't know the guy, but like Colley I'd be suspicious about why he's playing so low, and wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being his wife/son/daughter/m8 whatever having a mess about at the lower levels on his account. 

    I've done that before on other sites, and hear about people doing it alot.



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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited August 2011
    Why did you flat call the flop raise when you have the nuts ?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?:
    Why did you flat call the flop raise when you have the nuts ?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    He said he thought he was behind, so I guess he was calling to draw to the full house. - Which prob isn't too bad given those odds!! 

    But then the turn must become a fold, and that's why he was annoyed and ended the session early.


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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold?:
    In Response to Re: T2P at NL4. Facing tight opponent looks like im beat. Can i ever fold? : He said he thought he was behind, so I guess he was calling to draw to the full house. - Which prob isn't too bad given those odds!!  But then the turn must become a fold, and that's why he was annoyed and ended the session early.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    No but he has the nuts on that flop surely or has NL4 become super nitty ?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2011

    I agree with you, I was just giving you the answer I got when I asked him the same question.

    I think he is just using it as an excuse to end the seassion coz he cudnt be bothered, theres no way that a cooler like this should tilt you enough to have to quit...

    especially as only 10 mins earlier he got AK in v KK and binked to win 75xbbs.....It's not like he was running bad. The whole session lasted only 20 minutes 2 tabling.

    Surely it's not humanly possible to tilt that easily? Just xcuses imo, but he insists it's not....
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited August 2011

    Never gonna take out the easy money if you run away after they beat you in one hand :|

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