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PLO talk
Giant811
Member Posts: 613
Over the last few weeks I've been playing a lot of PLO/PLO8 MTTs and while I'm doing alright I'm sure there are a million things I could improve upon. Here are a few very general questions and comments and I would appreciate if some of the more experienced players could give their thoughts.
1. How do you put your opponent(s) on a range of hands pre/post flop? Sometimes it's quite obvious that the villain is pot-betting aces or kings on every street, but even so his other 2 cards could give him straight/flush draws or a lower set. Most of the times it seems to be impossible to put opponents on any specific range (other than assuming they must have something if they bet oop).
2. Multihanded what is the best way to play a good starting hand pre-flop? In NLH a premium hand often will still have high showdown value even if you completely miss the board, and by raising pre and c-betting you can narrow your opponent's range. Neither seems to be the case nearly as much in Omaha, so is pot control early in the handthe way to go?
3. Especially early on there is a lot of limping, what should be the minimum type of hand to make limping out of position profitable?
4. With the issues above of not being able to put opponents on ranges and playing most pots multi-way what is the best way to play non-nut hands in and out of position, ie set on a straight board, low straights/flushes, nut straights/flushes on a paired board?
5. In PLO8, what is the best way to play a good hi (draw) with no low, a nut low with no hi (draw) or a combination of medium strength hi + low, both heads-up and and against multiple opponents?
6. Tikay mentioned several times that in Omaha it can be the right play to fold the nuts. Can someone give me an example? The closest I can think off is having top set on a wet flop, but even then I would think the odds of 2 blanks coming + the odds of the opponents missing even if draws complete + the odds of making a house/quads would make it hard to fold even to a strong bet. Tikay obviously knows what he's talking about, so where am I going wrong?
1. How do you put your opponent(s) on a range of hands pre/post flop? Sometimes it's quite obvious that the villain is pot-betting aces or kings on every street, but even so his other 2 cards could give him straight/flush draws or a lower set. Most of the times it seems to be impossible to put opponents on any specific range (other than assuming they must have something if they bet oop).
2. Multihanded what is the best way to play a good starting hand pre-flop? In NLH a premium hand often will still have high showdown value even if you completely miss the board, and by raising pre and c-betting you can narrow your opponent's range. Neither seems to be the case nearly as much in Omaha, so is pot control early in the handthe way to go?
3. Especially early on there is a lot of limping, what should be the minimum type of hand to make limping out of position profitable?
4. With the issues above of not being able to put opponents on ranges and playing most pots multi-way what is the best way to play non-nut hands in and out of position, ie set on a straight board, low straights/flushes, nut straights/flushes on a paired board?
5. In PLO8, what is the best way to play a good hi (draw) with no low, a nut low with no hi (draw) or a combination of medium strength hi + low, both heads-up and and against multiple opponents?
6. Tikay mentioned several times that in Omaha it can be the right play to fold the nuts. Can someone give me an example? The closest I can think off is having top set on a wet flop, but even then I would think the odds of 2 blanks coming + the odds of the opponents missing even if draws complete + the odds of making a house/quads would make it hard to fold even to a strong bet. Tikay obviously knows what he's talking about, so where am I going wrong?
Comments
1) Unless you know for certain that a player raises only with a big PP then it is almost impossible to range a player preflop. Ranging post flop is also difficult unless you can learn tendencies of the players.For example i have bet all streets and been called by some with TPTK which is not good play but nice when you get it.
2) Omaha is a game(except at high blind levels) that is played from the flop onwards and down the streets.So no matter how good your hand is preflop it can be destroyed by the flop. Preflop raising is good to narrow the field but you need to be able to slow down or fold when you miss completely and not get married to a pretty looking hand.When you hit the flop big either with a made hand or big draw you then bang away at the pot to get your opponents to fold or pay you off.Do not wait until you have hit your draw before betting because you will rarely get paid.
3) The important thing about a starting hand is quantity over quality. You want as many of your 6 hands to be live and nut drawing as possible. You do not really want to be playing less than 3 nut drawing hands preflop. Simple rule the more nut drawing hands you have the more chance of hitting the board and the more chance of winning.
4) with sets on scary boards the best thing to excercise is pot control to give yourself a chance of housing or quadding up. With the others mentioned it is best to again use pot control but with the intent of folding to anything other than a weak bet.
5) With a good Hi draw you should be playing strong especiually if Lo is only a draw at the time. If possible never ever play Lo only because you can only split and not win. If you have nut lo and multiple opponents then the best way to play is smallish bets to encourage multiple callers so you can end up winning in the hand. HU with nut lo only you must bet big and bully your opponent off the hand because you have no showdown value. With medium both ways play with caution and keep potcontrol because you will never win a big pot but could easily lose one.
6) A good example for you would be a hand of 239K rainbow. The flop comes down A45 with 2 of one suit on it. You have the nuts on this board but it is dead because you have no redraws. so if we look at the board you do not want to see an A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 or one of the double suited cards on the trun with even more scare cards on the river. So in this situation if there were multiple way action before you on the flop then this would be the easiest snap fold in the world despite being sat on the nuts. The key to folding or calling is not just about what you have but what you might get. In a perfect world the flop would give you the nuts plus extensions plus redraws. Dead nuts are the most costly hand in omaha because there is little chance of runner runner blank so they need to be played with extreme caution.
Re 2. & 4. this is about what I figured. That said, some (most) of the high stakes players play it completely differently. 3,4,5-betting with average hands at best, $100k shoves with second pair and a gutshot etc. Is this some higher level of skill, the difference between cash and tournament play or just giant egos clashing?