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Sigh fold from Mastercash

TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
edited September 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Villian is very good aggressive reg on site and forum.  I did leaky pot control which led to a fold on the river.  What would you change throughout the hand?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancerentisdue Small blind  £0.50 £0.50 £98.50 x Big blind  £1.00 £1.50 £402.47   Your hole cards K Q       ezryder Fold     TommyD Raise  £3.00 £4.50 £549.33 tanj Fold     rentisdue Fold     x Raise  £11.00 £15.50 £391.47 TommyD Call  £9.00 £24.50 £540.33 Flop    K 7 Q       x Bet  £15.00 £39.50 £376.47 TommyD Call  £15.00 £54.50 £525.33 Turn    5       x Bet  £41.00 £95.50 £335.47 TommyD Call  £41.00 £136.50 £484.33 River    J       x Bet  £162.00 £298.50 £173.47 TommyD Fold     x Muck     x Win  £134.70  £308.17 x Return  £162.00
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Comments

  • ybyb Member Posts: 1,471
    edited August 2011
    if villain is who i think it is then i'd call river, your range doesn't look that strong at all given that you'd be raising sets/flushes on that flop nearly all of the time i would think
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8 Member Posts: 6,228
    edited August 2011
    I would personlly raise flop as it's very wet.

    As played I'd call.
  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited August 2011
    i'd probably re-raise flop

    hand plays out totally different though that way, i have no idea who it is also so pretty readless from my part.

    Also i dont see how you can fold when you have called all the way down, really under repping your hand although there are alot of hands that are beating you here so tough call. As played i prob sigh call on end
  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited August 2011
    pretty sure im villain? if you can give hh number i might be able to find out what i had becuase i cant remember at all


  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2011
    is he really playing Ah10x that way - possible but it's a very narrow range :s
    Would he play a set that way, more possible i guess
    Flopped flush, yeah gotta be :D
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2011
    Gotta be a flopped flush? Do you know what the odds are of a flopped flush?
  • CrazyBen23CrazyBen23 Member Posts: 865
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    pretty sure im villain? if you can give hh number i might be able to find out what i had becuase i cant remember at all
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    KQ
  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    pretty sure im villain? if you can give hh number i might be able to find out what i had becuase i cant remember at all
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Yes you were the villain mate and as CrazyBen has said you had KQ as well.

    Quickly to answer a few of the questions posed:

    I don't like always calling purely on the basis that I have under represented my hand.  Lol_Raise has 3bet pre OOP so there's something there, unless he just fancies me for air and is just trying to take it down either there or with a C-Bet on most flops.  That flop crashes against his 3bet value range.  If I raise flop I'm folding out all of his bluffs and only getting value from AK to AJ with A(h).  More importantly all sets 3bet the flop as does A(h)K and possibly A(h)Q.  I judged it more profitable to call him down with a non heart turn and river.

    So why did I go against the plan on the river?  Frankly I judged his decent size river bet as a value bet and just couldn't find anything I was beating.  I didn't even think KJ was in there.  I actually put Lol_Raise on a set trying to get 3 streets of value.  Obviously I was wrong.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2011

    cant see how you can fold river after playing hand that passively

  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    cant see how you can fold river after playing hand that passively
    Posted by grantorino
    What is Lol_Raise betting 3 streets for value with after a 3bet OOP pre that I beat?  Maybe that's a thin value Bet/fold with A(h)K but I don't see it myself after the river completes more of my range.
  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash : Yes you were the villain mate and as CrazyBen has said you had KQ as well. Quickly to answer a few of the questions posed: I don't like always calling purely on the basis that I have under represented my hand.  Lol_Raise has 3bet pre OOP so there's something there, unless he just fancies me for air and is just trying to take it down either there or with a C-Bet on most flops.  That flop crashes against his 3bet value range.  If I raise flop I'm folding out all of his bluffs and only getting value from AK to AJ with A(h).  More importantly all sets 3bet the flop as does A(h)K and possibly A(h)Q.  I judged it more profitable to call him down with a non heart turn and river. So why did I go against the plan on the river?  Frankly I judged his decent size river bet as a value bet and just couldn't find anything I was beating.  I didn't even think KJ was in there.  I actually put Lol_Raise on a set trying to get 3 streets of value.  Obviously I was wrong.
    Posted by TommyD

    Very good explenation on your thought process...

    I honestly don't know if I would have called or not given your thoughts as the hand played out so not gonna try and out think myself because it's easy to say call* now once we know the hand that lol had.

    Think a lot of credit should go to lol_raise for his bet sizing rather than be critical of your play m8 

    *Edited
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash : Very good explenation on your thought process... I honestly don't know if I would have called or not given your thoughts as the hand played out so not gonna try and out think myself because it's easy to say fold now once we know the hand that lol had. Think a lot of credit should go to lol_raise for his bet sizing rather than be critical of your play m8 
    Posted by dylan12
    Why would you fold if you knew it was a split pot?
  • dylan12dylan12 Member Posts: 2,343
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash : Why would you fold if you knew it was a split pot?
    Posted by Lambert180
    Obviously a mistype
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2011

    The fact you never raised in the hand and called down passive, told him he was best on river surely ?

    Is this a pure value bet or is this a bluff on the end

    I wonder what range he put you on Tommy - AhQx



  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    The fact you never raised in the hand and called down passive, told him he was best on river surely ? Is this a pure value bet or is this a bluff on the end I wonder what range he put you on Tommy - AhQx
    Posted by rancid
    Either that hand or KxJh.  Heck he's so good maybe he had me on KQ as well.  Maybe not clicking back the turn was a mistake TBH just to balance with the flopped nuts, big flush and sets.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash : Either that hand or KxJh.  Heck he's so good maybe he had me on KQ as well.  Maybe not clicking back the turn was a mistake TBH just to balance with the flopped nuts, big flush and sets.
    Posted by TommyD
    true, click back turn and the hand plays out another way
    You still may get pushed off or not on the turn, but at least it gives you the lead in the hand IP if he flats
    would he ever flat there though :s








  • LadyFingrsLadyFingrs Member Posts: 613
    edited September 2011
    As played...the turn and river are ehhhh, I think I call as our hand looks so much like Pair + Draw that he should be value betting wider than KQ. I definitely do not think we have a bluff catcher here.

    If i'm flatting the flop, it's certainly not to fold to this run out.
  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited September 2011
    LadyFingers!!  Haven't seen you about in a while.  Thanks to you and everyone else for the comments.
  • debdobs_67debdobs_67 Member Posts: 3,615
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    Gotta be a flopped flush? Do you know what the odds are of a flopped flush?
    Posted by Lambert180
    Think its 118/1 ??
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash:
    In Response to Re: Sigh fold from Mastercash : Think its 118/1 ??
    Posted by debdobs_67
    Well I forget the exact figure but yeah I know it's over 100/1 and that was my point. Maybe it's a leak of mine but I cannot put people on flopped flushes. If they've got it, they've got it, but it's just one hand (or a couple of flushy hands) in a range of possible hands surely.
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