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2 Omaha hands from yesterday

YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
edited September 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Hand 1) How do you think i have played this every street? Was 1 of my first hands at the table so no reads unfortuantely

411697378
YOUNG_GUN Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.70
Tikay10 Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £8.33
  Your hole cards
  • 7
  • 8
  • 6
  • 9
     
quadfather Fold     
skicowboys Fold     
garyK1972 Call  £0.10 £0.25 £10.61
YOUNG_GUN Call  £0.05 £0.30 £9.65
Tikay10 Check     
Flop
   
  • 10
  • 4
  • 7
     
YOUNG_GUN Bet  £0.20 £0.50 £9.45
Tikay10 Fold     
garyK1972 Raise  £0.73 £1.23 £9.88
YOUNG_GUN Call  £0.53 £1.76 £8.92
Turn
   
  • 3
     
YOUNG_GUN Bet  £1.20 £2.96 £7.72
garyK1972 Raise  £3.99 £6.95 £5.89
YOUNG_GUN All-in  £7.72 £14.67 £0.00
garyK1972 All-in  £5.89 £20.56 £0.00
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Comments

  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited September 2011
    2) this is a standard hand really but i think i should not go broke here? I put villain on either straight or flush draw hence why i was happy to get in but i think he is probably fave and with middle set can i fold here? no other draws for me so wasnt really happy that i stacked of here
    YOUNG_GUN Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £8.91
    KieronB Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £7.99
      Your hole cards
    • 5
    • 9
    • 10
    • 10
    		     
    quadfather Fold     
    r7rok Fold     
    littleor1 Raise  £0.20 £0.35 £6.81
    garyK1972 Call  £0.20 £0.55 £18.22
    YOUNG_GUN Call  £0.15 £0.70 £8.76
    KieronB Raise  £0.20 £0.90 £7.79
    littleor1 Call  £0.10 £1.00 £6.71
    garyK1972 Call  £0.10 £1.10 £18.12
    YOUNG_GUN Call  £0.10 £1.20 £8.66
    Flop
       
    • A
    • 5
    • 10
    		     
    YOUNG_GUN Bet  £1.20 £2.40 £7.46
    KieronB Raise  £4.80 £7.20 £2.99
    littleor1 Fold     
    garyK1972 Fold     
    YOUNG_GUN All-in  £7.46 £14.66 £0.00
    KieronB All-in  £2.99 £17.65 £0.00
    YOUNG_GUN Unmatched bet  £0.87 £16.78 £0.87
    YOUNG_GUN Show
    • 5
    • 9
    • 10
    • 10
    		   
    KieronB Show
    • Q
    • K
    • K
    • 8
    		   
    Turn
       
    • 3
    		     
    River
       
    • J
    		     
    KieronB Win Straight to the Ace £16.08  £16.08
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited September 2011
    Hand 1 - raise it up preeeee man! U got the nutz
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  • splashiessplashies Member Posts: 3,680
    edited September 2011
    Hand 1 i'd C/C turn.

    Hand 2 easy fold pre-flop.
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  • _keenberg_keenberg Member Posts: 118
    edited September 2011
    both kinda standard 'flippy' situations in micro omaha - only thing i would point out is you have limped Small Blind in each case - proble Omaha spots virtually always come out of poistion as so often forced to 'donk-bet' turns as in tese two examples with strong but vulnerable hands... rule of thumb for ALL pot-limit games, if feasible, much better to be reraiser than the raiser for obv mathematical fold-equity reasons... food for though Younggun, be lucky on the 4-card tables dude, Keenberg
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  • _keenberg_keenberg Member Posts: 118
    edited September 2011
    so even though i still would have lost... i wouldv check-raised the turn in hand 1) NOT bet the $1.20 out - hand 2 ) u were just unfortunate - variance beat ya tis all fine to bet out there on the flop no reason to give free cards. shalom
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  • _keenberg_keenberg Member Posts: 118
    edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: 2 Omaha hands from yesterday:
    Hand 1 i'd C/C turn. Hand 2 easy fold pre-flop.
    Posted by splashies

    Hand 1: C/C-ing OK but very meek - a C/R much better - see a moon in Omaha shoot it or u are dust long-term ;)

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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited September 2011
    Dohhhh, i would if i had position obviously

    Splash i think your right here but good value if flop a set although not often the implied odds

    Reason i played hand 1 aggressively is obviously open ender on flop which only hand im worrying about is a set but treat with caution, turn was really the best card giving me both straight and flush outs. Obviously i was not 100% my flush was good but i wanted to play it aggressively and had feeling other person wasnt on the flush draw(ill post hand later)

    Hand 2 i nearly folded pre but just the implied value really kept me in, i dont think post flop was unlucky really cause he had so many outs thats the problem with playing the 2nd nuts but no redraws i suppose. Again didnt want to pot control as i felt i was good at the time.
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2011
    Hand #1 

    PF - You can limp or raise, does not matter either way really, been oop is always bad in omaha but your hand plays exceptionally well postflop, and even if you do get limp-re-raised you can peel with v good equity even oop vs AAxx.

    Flop - lead call is fine, probably best way to play it.

    Turn - Depending how deep stacks are, im awful at reading hand histories on here, I think a check call is best. The board texture has only marginally changed, with an undercard to board coming completing only the 56 straight draw. Lead here with 56 all day long; this is because unlike what keenberg says, there is hardly any fold equity on this turn. Villain has raised a T74r flop, he has TTxx/77xx/44xx/T7xx or if he is a good aggro player, he has the J98x wrap, none of which you have fold equity vs.

    If you check call the turn, i lead all rivers that complete your draws and c/f if you miss.

    Hand #2 

    PF - Fold. This is a dire PLO hand with little chance of making money.

    Flop - What a surprise - you have flopped a strong hand with no redraws, so if you do get 100bb in with it you are either up against AAxx, a broadway wrap with or without flush draw, or bottom set (which is the only hand you have good equity against)

    Bearing this in mind, you DO NOT want this flop to check through, so leading/getting it in is probably the best way to play it (unless you lead, get raised, someone 3bets and someone cold 4's, you can probably put someone on AAxx then)

    I see you mentioned implied odds with TT95 - you are not going to be making top set that often, and even when you do make top set, its going to be swongy stacking off on T98, T86 etc boards. So you might flop middle set, yet again stacking off on QT8 JT9 etc boards is going to be super swongy. So you can flop bottom set; oh dear, can you think of a board where TTT is bottom set and there isn't a made broadway hand possible?

    T is a anchor point for lots of good wrap hands so you will always be up against a hand which has >40% equity against you. 

    I hope you can see why TT95 is not a good implied odds hand now, and if anything is more of a reverse implied odds hand.

    If your hand was QJTT it changes to a completely different strength hand and much more playable. 

    Hope that helps

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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited September 2011
    Cheers coxy for the advice appreciate it
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited September 2011
    Result, wasnt really happy how i played 2nd one. 1st one didn't mind too much but still was unsure so thanks for the comments all:
    YOUNG_GUN Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £9.70
    Tikay10 Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £8.33
      Your hole cards
    • 7
    • 8
    • 6
    • 9
    		     
    quadfather Fold     
    skicowboys Fold     
    garyK1972 Call  £0.10 £0.25 £10.61
    YOUNG_GUN Call  £0.05 £0.30 £9.65
    Tikay10 Check     
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • 4
    • 7
    		     
    YOUNG_GUN Bet  £0.20 £0.50 £9.45
    Tikay10 Fold     
    garyK1972 Raise  £0.73 £1.23 £9.88
    YOUNG_GUN Call  £0.53 £1.76 £8.92
    Turn
       
    • 3
    		     
    YOUNG_GUN Bet  £1.20 £2.96 £7.72
    garyK1972 Raise  £3.99 £6.95 £5.89
    YOUNG_GUN All-in  £7.72 £14.67 £0.00
    garyK1972 All-in  £5.89 £20.56 £0.00
    garyK1972 Unmatched bet  £0.96 £19.60 £0.96
    YOUNG_GUN Show
    • 7
    • 8
    • 6
    • 9
    		   
    garyK1972 Show
    • 7
    • 6
    • 5
    • 10
    		   
    River
       
    • A
    		     
    garyK1972 Win Straight to the 7 £18.90  £19.86
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited September 2011
    Can't really improve on Coxy's post, excellent stuff there especially regarding tens on the board.

    Coxy's a much better PLO player than me but with hand 1 at this level I'm more than happy getting it in on the flop.  If you are playing very good players you're only getting it all in against top set, set with straight draw or a top end wrap, in other words poor equity spots.  However here at this level I think you're getting action and indeed getting it all in from holdings with much less equity.  Might be a personal leak but I'm repopping the flop on hand 1.

    Hand 2 is just plain ugly.  Defo fold pre.
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  • _keenberg_keenberg Member Posts: 118
    edited September 2011
    Agree with all the expert hand advise from CoxyLBoro (Leics honed online deathgod !) except this bit...

    Hand #1 
    PF - You can limp or raise, does not matter either way really, been oop is always bad in omaha but your hand plays exceptionally well postflop, and even if you do get limp-re-raised you can peel with v good equity even oop vs AAxx.

    i would def raise here with a hand as tight as your wrap... for long-term table reputation (such a big thing esp in 4-card) purposes... isolate against the hands u wanna play against AAxx/KKxx... maybe TID pre-flop on a tightish table
    Flop - lead call is fine, probably best way to play it.
    Gets very minimal info lead calling and sets me up for horrid turn decisions any 'dead cards' - i still prefer the check-raise to get it in if he flats my 3bet on a scary turn (there is my fold equity) or on the flop if ness as i am live enough to justufy getting it in (happens here eventually anyhows but obv the eventually match-up a nightmare hand to be against coolerish)

    Great handposts - max respect to the demon that is CoxyLBoro - best stats iv even seen EVER !!!
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